Avenues- Replace Numbers With Names

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hiawather
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Avenues- Replace Numbers With Names

Postby hiawather » August 14th, 2018, 8:40 am

I live in the Hiawatha neighborhood between Minnehaha and Hiawatha. I've lived here nearly 15 years. I still struggle to identify what numbered avenue I live near - as it turns out, 40th Avenue is just on the other side of Minnehaha from me and 34th is on the other side of Hiawatha. Since Minnehaha-Hiawatha and the streets between run diagonally across the grid, the intersecting avenues change as you go north or south.

Is it just a vagary of my sad little brain that I cannot keep track of where what avenue is? I have no problem with streets - I can picture 38th street in my head just fine. 38th Avenue? Let me check a map. The intersection of 38th street and 38th avenue...not sure where that is. My question is- does anyone else have the same problem? My follow up is: would it be better to name the Avenues?

In my opinion, yes it would be. I hate a numbered road intersecting a numbered road...it seems so lazy or incomplete, like at one time we numbered the avenues provisionally until we came up with some sort of (hopefully alphabetical) naming convention. I genuinely believe I would better be able to place the location of an avenue in my head if they were named...and isn't finding locations the main purpose of road names or numbers in the first place?

Besides, just one more chance for Prince Avenue.

EOst
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Re: Avenues- Replace Numbers With Names

Postby EOst » August 14th, 2018, 8:53 am

The Minneapolis "numerological twilight zone": https://www.minnpost.com/cityscape/2015 ... light-zone

I think that the long run would be better if certain major avenues in that area were named, but it would be a notable burden in the short run on residents.

hiawather
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Re: Avenues- Replace Numbers With Names

Postby hiawather » August 14th, 2018, 9:14 am

EOst wrote:
August 14th, 2018, 8:53 am
The Minneapolis "numerological twilight zone": https://www.minnpost.com/cityscape/2015 ... light-zone

I think that the long run would be better if certain major avenues in that area were named, but it would be a notable burden in the short run on residents.
Nice- I should have figured Bill would have already been on this years ago...

amiller92
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Re: Avenues- Replace Numbers With Names

Postby amiller92 » August 14th, 2018, 12:22 pm

FWIW, the diagonals of Hiawatha, Dight, Snelling and Minnehaha seem like a bigger source of confusion than the numbers. Is the next intersection going to be a street or an avenue, and what number seems kind of unlearnable.

Meanwhile, 28th, 34th, and 42 Avenues are fairly easy to picture, as the main ones with transit and where there's stuff. I don't think 33rd Ave, or any of them that are mainly residential, becomes easier to keep track of because we changed it to Maple Ave.

ETA: Definitely need to keep track of which is the street and which is the avenue, though.

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Nick
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Re: Avenues- Replace Numbers With Names

Postby Nick » August 14th, 2018, 12:37 pm

Could always use alphabetical names?

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sdho
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Re: Avenues- Replace Numbers With Names

Postby sdho » August 14th, 2018, 7:14 pm

I am well outside the numerological twilight zone, but still have persistent problems (on 2nd Ave S) with people mistaking Stevens for 2nd. Basically every time I take an Uber or taxi.

If you were talking about as radical an idea as renaming streets, may as well clean up all the weirdness between Nicollet and 10th. (e.g., some named streets, like Stevens or Clinton, go between numbered, but others stand in for numbered -- so there is no 6th, 7th, 8th, or 9th in greater S Mpls grid).

That said, even simple, obvious renamings seem politically unpopular and inconvenient enough to not go anywhere. See: Kenwood/Bryant/Vineland/Oak Grove/15th. 5 names in 1600 feet. Or one block of Fremont Ave N in the middle of Van White Mem Blvd.

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Re: Avenues- Replace Numbers With Names

Postby Didier » August 14th, 2018, 10:49 pm

What's up with that little subdivision by the river where all the roads are curvy and named things like Coffman?

Uptown46
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Re: Avenues- Replace Numbers With Names

Postby Uptown46 » August 15th, 2018, 6:01 am

Didier wrote:
August 14th, 2018, 10:49 pm
What's up with that little subdivision by the river where all the roads are curvy and named things like Coffman?
Part of the history on that: https://www.minnpost.com/politics-polic ... ons-south-

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Re: Avenues- Replace Numbers With Names

Postby twincitizen » August 15th, 2018, 7:09 am

I'd 100% be on board renaming the major Avenues of 28th & 34th on the west side of Hiawatha, and I'd be one of the people having to change my address.

I don't know the Longfellow area (east of Hiawatha) as well, but over there I imagine the most obvious candidates for named streets are 36th Ave (south of 25th St) and 42nd Ave (south of Lake).

It's too bad the best names (Nokomis Ave, Longfellow Ave) are already taken. In a perfect world, 28th Ave would have been named Nokomis Ave...it's so obvious. Too bad it wound up randomly 3 blocks to the east (interrupting the numbering sequence no less).

Of all of the above, 34th Avenue has the biggest single commercial node (34th & 50th St) that could really benefit from a better name. The commercial nodes along 28th Ave and 42nd Ave are all quite small (the next largest being 28th Ave & 42nd St, and 42nd Ave and 38th St...jesus)

A. What name do you all suggest for 34th Ave?
B. Is it reasonable to make several hundred residents (and a couple dozen businesses) change their addresses, if the primary reason is to benefit business? There's no real benefit to the individual resident, other than your address becomes slightly easier to say out loud.

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sdho
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Re: Avenues- Replace Numbers With Names

Postby sdho » August 15th, 2018, 4:51 pm

twincitizen wrote:
August 15th, 2018, 7:09 am
A. What name do you all suggest for 34th Ave?
B. Is it reasonable to make several hundred residents (and a couple dozen businesses) change their addresses, if the primary reason is to benefit business? There's no real benefit to the individual resident, other than your address becomes slightly easier to say out loud.
a.) Suggestion for 34th: "Cemetery Blvd" or Ave, naming it for the busiest section of 34th adjacent to Humphrey Terminal and extending along 34th plane in both directions. Snelling something would sound better, but that name is also taken, both by the minor street in Minneapolis and the major one in St Paul. The allusion to Ft Snelling Cemetery would be cool, but I guess I don't know if Cemetery & 50th is quite the ring you might want for a business district.

Also: Bossen Ave for 28th would be decent

b.) Probably not worth it for the average resident, although this is is not uncommon in other cities.

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sdho
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Re: Avenues- Replace Numbers With Names

Postby sdho » August 15th, 2018, 4:53 pm

Another idea is to extend the tree name theme east from Cedar, since that is a highly recognizable street name. Obviously some are taken elsewhere in the city, like Oak St.

But, Pine, Fir, Honeylocust, etc. Many trees not taken. Sort of kitschy, but could tie together the series of major north-south avenues east of Cedar.

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Re: Avenues- Replace Numbers With Names

Postby MNdible » August 15th, 2018, 5:12 pm

34th could be Humphrey Ave, right?

Maybe Wenonah Ave for 28th? Or is there already a street somewhere with that name?

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Tiller
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Re: Avenues- Replace Numbers With Names

Postby Tiller » August 15th, 2018, 6:02 pm

Wenonah sounds like Winona when spoken, so there could be confusion regarding both how to spell it and which one it is.

BoredAgain
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Re: Avenues- Replace Numbers With Names

Postby BoredAgain » August 16th, 2018, 8:00 am

sdho wrote:
August 15th, 2018, 4:53 pm
Another idea is to extend the tree name theme east from Cedar, since that is a highly recognizable street name. Obviously some are taken elsewhere in the city, like Oak St.

But, Pine, Fir, Honeylocust, etc. Many trees not taken. Sort of kitschy, but could tie together the series of major north-south avenues east of Cedar.
An entire area named for trees would only make me think this was a suburban cul de sac.

twincitizen
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Re: Avenues- Replace Numbers With Names

Postby twincitizen » August 16th, 2018, 9:14 am

MNdible wrote:
August 15th, 2018, 5:12 pm
34th could be Humphrey Ave, right?

Maybe Wenonah Ave for 28th? Or is there already a street somewhere with that name?
I was thinking Chamberlain Ave (Wold-Chamberlain). Weenonah (yes with the extra "e") & Keewaydin are taken.

Another theme option to continue could be US cities. We have Chicago, Portland, Oakland and Columbus Avenues, but that's it. We don't really have state names for streets either. Lots of cities have a "Minnesota St/Ave".

Mostly looking for something that sounds great with 50th & _________. My top priority would be something with a good ring to it, though I understand most residents would be looking for something with a local historical connection, rather than a marketable business district.

TBH, opening this can of worms under the current political environment would probably mean that it could not possibly be named after any white man in history. I don't have a specific problem with that, just predicting that's where the public conversation would lead. Probably best to stick with trees ;)












50th & Emerald Ash Borer

LakeCharles
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Re: Avenues- Replace Numbers With Names

Postby LakeCharles » August 16th, 2018, 9:32 am

twincitizen wrote:
August 16th, 2018, 9:14 am
TBH, opening this can of worms under the current political environment would probably mean that it could not possibly be named after any white man in history. I don't have a specific problem with that, just predicting that's where the public conversation would lead. Probably best to stick with trees ;)
Good thing there are plenty of people who aren't old white men to name stuff after!

Nellie Stone Johnson, W. Gertrude Brown, Lena O. Smith, the list goes on and on...

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Re: Avenues- Replace Numbers With Names

Postby Didier » August 16th, 2018, 2:14 pm

50th and Doležal

at40man
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Re: Avenues- Replace Numbers With Names

Postby at40man » August 20th, 2018, 9:31 am

twincitizen wrote:
August 16th, 2018, 9:14 am
We don't really have state names for streets either. Lots of cities have a "Minnesota St/Ave".
Actually, "we" do have state names for lots of streets, organized (for the most part) in a logical manner. Nearly all the east-west streets bounded by Arlington and Larpenteur / Snelling and McKnight are named after states.

Also, there is already a Minnesota Street in downtown Saint Paul.

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Re: Avenues- Replace Numbers With Names

Postby martykoessel » August 20th, 2018, 11:34 am

I understand the sentiment and the logic of adding street names, although nowadays GPS can overcome a lot of the navigational consfusion. More importantly, the costs in time and money of such changes are high, and I'm not just talking about what the City would pay for switching out signage and updating records. Think of every single resident or business along streets with new names having to change IDs, online records, marketing materials (for businesses), etc. This would be a great way to piss off a whole lot of people.

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Re: Avenues- Replace Numbers With Names

Postby exiled_antipodean » August 20th, 2018, 11:47 am

The strangest one is Minneapolis Ave, a pokey little diagonal two block street in Seward.


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