Mall of America - Bloomington

Twin Cities Suburbs
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VacantLuxuries
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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby VacantLuxuries » October 30th, 2018, 8:07 am

Looks like the dream of an Ikea skyway dies here.

HiawathaGuy
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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby HiawathaGuy » October 30th, 2018, 8:48 am

Anondson wrote:
October 29th, 2018, 6:15 pm
Plans for $230M water park expansion to the north.

https://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/ ... ll-of.html
It's always annoyed me that MOA doesn't have a large waterpark. With Triple 5 having one in Canada, it seemed so weird they didn't try and corner that market here. I think there's a lot of appetite for something like this here - instead of having to drive 4 hours to Wisconsin Dells. Our weather is very conducive for this amenity and I like the 494 frontage. The rendering is a bit disingenuous though - as I don't think the entire inside middle area will be one large wave pool... Nor does the greenery shown match the drawings in the article, as it's not greenery there, just parking. Either way, I think this is a smart move for Bloomington and MOA. An eastward development of more shops can work too, or perhaps Triple 5 will buy the old Thunderbird land from the Port Authority and jump further towards 494 with another hotel, shopping, office and housing?

MNdible
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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby MNdible » October 30th, 2018, 9:17 am

Making the water park a non-profit entity so as to not pay property taxes is offensive on so many levels.

Multimodal
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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby Multimodal » October 30th, 2018, 10:03 am

This is win-win-win… for Triple Five.

• They get rent for the land.
• The get paid to operate it. (Ownership is non-profit, but presumably operating it isn’t.)
• They get a direct, all-season skyway connecting it to their for-profit mall.

This is *terrible* urbanism. This is traditional suburbanism. Huge parking lots. No interaction with the street or any kind of walkable urbanism nearby. All with one owner/operator, incentivizing cross-promotion only for their properties. Stay at their hotels, shop in their stores, have fun at something that make a profit on rent & operating.

Other than being a fun destination, this is terrible for Bloomington, the entire Metro area, and the state, on virtually all accounts.

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VacantLuxuries
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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby VacantLuxuries » October 30th, 2018, 10:22 am

This is *terrible* urbanism. This is traditional suburbanism. Huge parking lots. No interaction with the street or any kind of walkable urbanism nearby. All with one owner/operator, incentivizing cross-promotion only for their properties. Stay at their hotels, shop in their stores, have fun at something that make a profit on rent & operating.
...I mean, were we really expecting good urbanism to come from MOA expansion? That seems like a losing wager to make.

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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby Multimodal » October 30th, 2018, 2:01 pm

VacantLuxuries wrote:...I mean, were we really expecting good urbanism to come from MOA expansion? That seems like a losing wager to make.
Well, repeating the same mistakes and expecting something different to happen is not a good strategy.

There’s no reason a mall or other large property (Pentagon Park *cough* *cough*) has to continue in an inwardly-focused suburban design pattern.

You can’t change what’s there, but you can change what gets added.

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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby Multimodal » October 30th, 2018, 2:19 pm

Aquaboulevard, an urban water park in Paris. A block off the Metro.

Image

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VacantLuxuries
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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby VacantLuxuries » October 30th, 2018, 2:25 pm

I don't disagree. Bloomington clearly is going to give them whatever they want though, as the ridiculous sweetheart tax deal shows.

I don't live in Bloomington because this is what I expect from Bloomington.

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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby Multimodal » October 30th, 2018, 2:29 pm

True enough.

I guess I haven’t really followed Bloomington planning. Are there any Tweeters or bloggers from Bloomington who are urbanists? Is the city onboard with modern urbanism (other than, obviously, this)?

Edina, Richfield, St. Louis Park, Hopkins, Mpls, & St. Paul are doing so much right, this just seems so old-fashioned.

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VacantLuxuries
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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby VacantLuxuries » October 30th, 2018, 2:33 pm

The only streets.mn contributor that comes to mind is definitely pro-roads and parking...

Bloomington fought a battle with Kraus Anderson over better zoning at Southtown four years ago that is resulting in a more urbanist redevelopment now that their anchor tenants have bit the dust. I feel like the MOA is getting handled with kid gloves and I'm not sure why.

BigIdeasGuy
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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby BigIdeasGuy » October 30th, 2018, 2:36 pm

Well I guess this says all you need to know about Triple 5 thinks about luxury retail at MOA and really the future of adding retail to the mall in general.

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VacantLuxuries
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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby VacantLuxuries » October 30th, 2018, 2:46 pm

Well I guess this says all you need to know about Triple 5 thinks about luxury retail at MOA and really the future of adding retail to the mall in general.
Honestly, that I don't mind. Better they figured that out before doubling in size and putting themselves at risk. There'll be plenty of new retail space once Sears finally liquidates.

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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby Mikey » October 30th, 2018, 4:14 pm

Maybe with the coming death of Sears, there would be the opportunity to bulldoze the east ramp and expand the mall in that direction.

Of course, they'll probably say they need $$$ to put 24th below grade...
Urbanist in the north woods

HiawathaGuy
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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby HiawathaGuy » October 30th, 2018, 4:26 pm

I'm always amazed at how many cranky people are on this site - not that it surprises me anymore though.
It's a great place for a lot of people to voice their opinions, especially negative ones.

The reality is that without MOA, Bloomington wouldn't have the money to do most of what they've been able to do in the past 20+ years. I think there's a place for urbanism, but I don't think that's possible directly around MOA. Bloomington is trying with the South Loop area around Central Station - but unless MOA closes up shop and the entire area is rethought, I just don't see how the two can mix the way you guys are talking about. MOA is a huge tourism draw and having the 2nd largest indoor waterpark in the US attached to it makes tremendous sense. Is it a sweetheart deal for Triple 5, of course! But Bloomington knows that keeping the hotel rooms full and people coming to MOA is a sweetheart deal for them!

I don't think it's reasonable to expect every suburb to go full-on urbanism - but I do think they should embrace it when and where it makes sense for the city.

BigIdeasGuy
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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby BigIdeasGuy » October 30th, 2018, 6:59 pm

VacantLuxuries wrote:
October 30th, 2018, 2:46 pm
Well I guess this says all you need to know about Triple 5 thinks about luxury retail at MOA and really the future of adding retail to the mall in general.
Honestly, that I don't mind. Better they figured that out before doubling in size and putting themselves at risk. There'll be plenty of new retail space once Sears finally liquidates.
I wasn't trying to make a comment on if it was a good or bad thing it was just an observation. I would also put the closing of anchor stores in a different category than general expansion of the mall.

I'm certainly not a shopping mall expert but I would venture it guess it would be a lot easier to draw people north through a new food court to additional shopping than through a parking garage and across 24th, even if it's all enclosed and looks nice.

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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby Korh » October 30th, 2018, 9:08 pm

I wonder when they go forward with construction with the water park, will end up speeding up construction on the MOA Transit Station remodel or end up delaying it.

Multimodal
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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby Multimodal » October 30th, 2018, 9:19 pm

HiawathaGuy wrote:I don't think it's reasonable to expect every suburb to go full-on urbanism - but I do think they should embrace it when and where it makes sense for the city.
Nobody’s saying we should tear down MoA, kill all the airports, all go vegan, and cars should be banned everywhere.

What I am saying is that we have 22 years to get our greenhouse gases under control to keep climate change to a 1.5ºC instead of a 2ºC rise in global temperature.

So any *new* project—anywhere, even in the burbs, even extending an existing building—should aim at getting people out of cars and into transit, biking, or walking.

The funny thing about urbanism and malls is that they implement it on the inside (wide, pedestrian-only “streets” with a variety of generally narrow storefronts of different ownership, varied “architecture”/styles with full glass exposure of the inside of the store) but ignore it on the outside (monolithic, windowless facade, surrounded by stroads and endless parking, with a single owner).

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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby DanPatchToget » October 30th, 2018, 9:41 pm

Multimodal wrote:
October 30th, 2018, 2:29 pm
True enough.

I guess I haven’t really followed Bloomington planning. Are there any Tweeters or bloggers from Bloomington who are urbanists? Is the city onboard with modern urbanism (other than, obviously, this)?

Edina, Richfield, St. Louis Park, Hopkins, Mpls, & St. Paul are doing so much right, this just seems so old-fashioned.
As a Bloomington resident (specifically the west side) I’ll have to say no, they are nowhere near modern urbanism goals. Any attempt at urbanism is half baked, but that’s my perspective from a person who wants to use other modes of transport more, but it’s not easy here.

I am very much looking forward to moving out of there and finding a place that’s more respectable to walkers, bikers, and transit users. Unless by some miracle they get their act together.

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Anondson
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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby Anondson » October 31st, 2018, 8:07 am

Miguel Otárola on how Bloomington is setting up the financial arrangement to make the waterpark happen and allegedly not put taxpayers at risk.

http://www.startribune.com/bloomington- ... 499090931/

Multimodal
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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby Multimodal » October 31st, 2018, 8:16 am

For once, I think some of the Star Tribune comments make sense.


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