222 & Whole Foods - (222 Hennepin Avenue)

[Unity77]

Drove by this VERY recently. OMFG.



Not happy with this at all.

Screw aesthetics and the fact that there should have been higher standards set for this site. We are getting a Whole Foods.

[nasa35]

Drove by this VERY recently. OMFG.



Not happy with this at all.

Screw aesthetics and the fact that there should have been higher standards set for this site. We are getting a Whole Foods.

The whole foods aspect is great, no doubt. But otherwise, this is such a complete disaster.

I get the sarcasm, though.

[mattaudio]

Why did they even bother? I'd much prefer some underwhelming boarded up car dealership or a surface lot. Compared to those options, this sure is a disaster.

[nasa35]

Why did they even bother? I'd much prefer some underwhelming boarded up car dealership or a surface lot. Compared to those options, this sure is a disaster.

you will regret this some day, mark my word. Not the effing gateway of all places!!!!!!!!!!

[mattaudio]

At that point, we can knock it down and build a tower. There's an entire spectrum of development between surface parking and 500'+ tower.

[Tyler]

Love the enthusiasm for the gateway(!!!). Top 5 destination in the upper Midwest.

[Unity77]

At that point, we can knock it down and build a tower. There's an entire spectrum of development between surface parking and 500'+ tower.

I could care less if there is a 500'+ tower at this site. I just thought the location deserved something better in regards to design.

[John]

I think 222 will look better than what some people think when it's completed. However, I'm hoping the era for these 6-7 story buildings is almost over. There is a sense of monotony about the design of these buildings, and they do nothing to contribute to our skyline. We need more density that is vertical and high rise in downtown, with an emphasis on pedestrian friendly architecture at the street level.

[Nathan]

I think 222 will look better than what some people think when it's completed. However, I'm hoping the era for these 6-7 story buildings is almost over. There is a sense of monotony about the design of these buildings, and they do nothing to contribute to our skyline. We need more density that is vertical and high rise in downtown, with an emphasis on pedestrian friendly architecture at the street level.

I also think it will look better than people think. I'm sure they are going to appoint it well, but I totally understand why people find it underwhelming with it's neighbors being Yamasaki and Pelli... still plenty of room to fill out the gateway area with some cool architecture.

[ECtransplant]

still plenty of room to fill out the gateway area with some cool architecture.

This. There are swaths of developable land adjacent to this site. Getting Whole Food next door will make it easier for someone to put something special there.

[nickmgray]

I know there are a lot of sarcastic comments on this page, but lets not forget that aesthetics mean absolutely nothing. It's all about that the building offers and how it incorporates into the neighborhood. If 222 is able to get people out and create a more vibrant neighborhood, it will be a success.

Personally, I don't like the look of the building. But I do think that the finished product will be so much better for this intersection than the car dealership ever was.

[web]

hey man is the sort command going to work again......especially the "view unread posts"??????

[John]

I think 222 will look better than what some people think when it's completed. However, I'm hoping the era for these 6-7 story buildings is almost over. There is a sense of monotony about the design of these buildings, and they do nothing to contribute to our skyline. We need more density that is vertical and high rise in downtown, with an emphasis on pedestrian friendly architecture at the street level.

I also think it will look better than people think. I'm sure they are going to appoint it well, but I totally understand why people find it underwhelming with it's neighbors being Yamasaki and Pelli... still plenty of room to fill out the gateway area with some cool architecture.

And we also have plenty of very talented Minnesota architects who can build great architecture. Nasa35 and Retired banker are very astute in their understanding of what will make our urban core successful. The key for downtown success is to have more vertical density and multi-use projects (on smaller parcels of land) which create that "critical mass" of people and activity that encourages street level retail, increases public safety, etc. The problem with these 6-7 story buildings is while they do create horizontal density in the city, they are weak in creating a strong dense urban fabric that's bustling. Just walk through the North Loop at different times of the day: it's virtually a ghost town.

[Nick]

I think 222 will look better than what some people think when it's completed. However, I'm hoping the era for these 6-7 story buildings is almost over. There is a sense of monotony about the design of these buildings, and they do nothing to contribute to our skyline. We need more density that is vertical and high rise in downtown, with an emphasis on pedestrian friendly architecture at the street level.

I also think it will look better than people think. I'm sure they are going to appoint it well, but I totally understand why people find it underwhelming with it's neighbors being Yamasaki and Pelli... still plenty of room to fill out the gateway area with some cool architecture.

And we also have plenty of very talented Minnesota architects who can build great architecture. The key for downtown success is to have more vertical density and multi use projects on smaller parcels which create that "critical mass" of people and activity that encourages street level retail, increases public safety, etc. The problem with these 6-7 story buildings is while they do create horizontal density in the city, they are weak in creating a strong dense urban fabric that's bustling. Just walk through the North Loop at different times of the day. It's virtually a ghost town.

For the four or five people who keep saying this: Just because you're saying it doesn't make it correct. Even if you're saying it over and over again in a whole paragraph. Height has nothing to do with the arguments you're making, except for the one about a pretty skyline. Here's an example of four stories. Here's an example of a taller building. The points you are trying to make are not related to the things you are saying. Please try harder.

[beykite]

Yea man but... Like... Think about the skyline????? OMG It must look so much better in that second view.

[min-chi-cbus]

Guys, between this and another thread I've been a part of tonight, this forum is starting to become a shit-fest....the very thing this place doesn't need to become. I LOVE that about this forum -- people talk cities!! It's not my call obviously but the "total fail" and "try harder" kind of talk should stay in places like C-D, IMO.

*Edit: My bad....carry on.

[John]

For the four or five people who keep saying this: Just because you're saying it doesn't make it correct. Even if you're saying it over and over again in a whole paragraph. Height has nothing to do with the arguments you're making, except for the one about a pretty skyline. The points you are trying to make are not related to the things you are saying. Please try harder.

I think it's great we are filling up some of our empty lots with 6-7 story buildings. But I think this needs to be balanced with more high rise, multi-use development. I really like 222 and some of the other projects going up downtown and in Uptown. 222 in particular is a good project because it is multi-use with some retail at the street level. That will encourage more pedestrian activity around it , at least on the corner of Hennepin and Washington. But (for example) , a block the same size as 222 can comfortably fit 250 apartments, a 300 unit hotel (on top of 10 floors of office space), and incorporate several retail stores wrapped around the building rather than just Whole Foods fronting one side on Washington Ave. This is a more dynamic mix and concentration of activity than what is being built now. Nick , for some of us it's not just about having pretty skylines. It's a passionate belief that building "up" will make our downtown more energetic and vital like Seattle or San Francisco. It's the next step to take in the transformation of our downtown to a mature urban core.

[Razorback]

Height issues aside, it is so wonderful to look that direction from 4th or 5th (or I guess anywhere) and see SOMETHING where there has been this huge gap for as long as I've ever known. Imagine what it will be like to return some life -and a good deal of it - to this corner which was robbed of it so long ago. Fantastic. Maybe someone will revive the Elipse (or was it Eclipse?) towers across the street and we get the best of both.

[beykite]

It's the next step to take in the transformation of our downtown to a mature urban core.

That last sentence there is key. It will happen eventually. As surface lots go away it will only make sense for developers to build up. I understand the frustration people are feeling but we need to remember, we are not San Francisco or Seattle. We have a ways to go before we get there. These 6-10 story buildings will offer good support for when the next wave comes in with (hopefully) taller buildings. Instead of a 30 story building sitting in the middle of blocks and blocks of surface parking at least there will be some infill development around. What gets tiring is the fact that many of the topics on the forum now are just people bickering about how nothing is good enough or right and how everything should fall in line with their fantasy. There's very little talk of the actual real life construction. If you honestly think you know the best way to do these things then by all means, become a developer and go get financing for that 250 unit apartment building with 300 hotel rooms and 10 floors of office. Bonus points if you can turn a profit.

[tabletop]

So did you guys hear that due to higher insurance costs they've had to do a minor redesign to some of the ammenitys to save some money. Instead of having the pool on the roof they're going to just leave it in the basement...