Hiawatha-Minnehaha Development & RR Corridor/MinHi Line

Calhoun-Isles, Cedar-Riverside, Longfellow, Nokomis, Phillips, Powderhorn, and Southwest
John21
Union Depot
Posts: 328
Joined: June 8th, 2012, 8:23 am
Location: 38th Street Station

Re: Southside - General Topics

Postby John21 » May 21st, 2019, 9:45 am

John21 wrote:
August 28th, 2018, 5:16 pm
‘Extremely affordable’ housing project planned at 45th and Hiawatha
The five-story, 53,950 square-foot building will sit on one acre. It will include 80 efficiency units that range from 418 to 518 square feet. A parking lot will have 40 spaces, or about a half space per unit, and there will be inside storage for bicycles. One-third of the property will be green space along what planners hope will soon be the Min Hi Line linear park.
This one got the country grant they were seeking- (unlocked) https://finance-commerce.com/2019/05/af ... ongfellow/

squrtis
City Center
Posts: 26
Joined: June 6th, 2017, 2:23 pm

Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Ave Development & RR Corridor/Grain Elevators

Postby squrtis » June 5th, 2019, 6:11 am

minneboom wrote:
August 31st, 2018, 7:09 pm
More details on the proposed development at 46th St and Minnehaha Ave!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uml6m88olugkl ... e.pdf?dl=0
Fences around this property as I drove by this morning.

kiliff75
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 180
Joined: February 3rd, 2013, 10:14 pm
Location: Northbound Brewpub - Standish

Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Development & RR Corridor/MinHi Line

Postby kiliff75 » July 12th, 2019, 7:25 pm

The Acme Foundry at 3161 Hiawatha (NE corner of 32nd and Hiawatha) is for sale! Hopefully to be developed into something, too bad that long strip of land with dirt piles isn't part of this property...

https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/3161-Hi ... Q5G7_nYWdE

minneboom
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 160
Joined: October 28th, 2015, 6:05 pm

Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Development & RR Corridor/MinHi Line

Postby minneboom » July 13th, 2019, 10:11 pm

Would be great to see something cool go in there. Great opportunity for some sort of adaptive reuse project.

twincitizen
Moderator
Posts: 6203
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm
Location: Standish-Ericsson

Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Avenue Development & Grain Elevators/Freight Corridor

Postby twincitizen » September 6th, 2019, 12:58 pm

the Starbucks and Domino's proposal (4159 Hiawatha / Wash Me site) was pulled by the developer after significant concerns were raised by residents, neighborhood associations (LCC & SENA), and the Planning Commission. The developer has since decided to pursue a mixed-use building that includes 40-units of housing, eliminates one of the drive-thrus, and hides the other behind and under the building; it is a dramatic improvement, and can be described as going from a suburban design to urban design (more details will be posted to my Facebook page when available).
Silophant wrote:
June 7th, 2018, 7:26 pm
Here's the packet. 43 units, 20 surface parking spaces - all listed as short-term for the Starbucks/Dominos, not for the apartments.

Also, maybe I just don't get it because I'm not a coffee drinker, but holy crap are they putting a lot of effort into getting a drive-through to work.
Just saw a Facebook post by LCC stating that the proposal for two single-story drive-thru buildings is back again. For those that were paying attention last year, the applicant was quite up front that the 4-story mixed-use proposal (which was approved) had no timeline or financial backing. They presented it as if they were going to try to get it financed, but I wouldn't be surprised if they only spent the money on those plans just so they could say "see, we tried and couldn't find anyone to finance it, so that's why we're back with the shitty drive-thru idea"

https://longfellow.org/2019/09/06/publi ... watha-ave/

Looks like it's going to Planning Commission on Monday 9/23, 4:30pm. I'd like to imagine this will have a tough time getting approved, but who knows... What's the status on the drive-thru ban? Was that just at Planning Commission or did the final ordinance language actually get adopted by the City Council? Based on the news reporting, I had assumed the latter, that the ordinance was already in effect.

Silophant
Moderator
Posts: 3824
Joined: June 20th, 2012, 4:33 pm
Location: The Gateway

Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Development & RR Corridor/MinHi Line

Postby Silophant » September 6th, 2019, 1:07 pm

Drive-throughs are banned as of August 8th. However, if their application was deemed complete before then, they proceed through regulatory review under the previous regulation. I'm not sure if there's any way for the public to find out when the application was deemed complete. Hopefully not way back with the initial proposal - I think the CPC would have a hard time denying a drive-through in an I1 zone without the blanket ban.

twincitizen
Moderator
Posts: 6203
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm
Location: Standish-Ericsson

Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Development & RR Corridor/MinHi Line

Postby twincitizen » September 6th, 2019, 1:31 pm

If the proposal hasn't changed much from the initial version, I think there are enough legitimate concerns with vehicle backups, vehicle-ped conflicts, etc. that the City would still have solid grounds to deny, even if the application was deemed complete before the drive-thru ban went into effect.

Since there hasn't been a Planning Commission meeting in nearly a month, it is entirely possible that the application was complete before the new ordinance took effect. I wouldn't be shocked if they heard about the impending ban and rushed to re-apply before the ordinance got through City Council. Seems increasingly clear that they had little to no intent of actually building the mixed-use proposal.

User avatar
Nick
Capella Tower
Posts: 3006
Joined: May 30th, 2012, 9:33 pm
Location: Loring Park, Minneapolis

Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Development & RR Corridor/MinHi Line

Postby Nick » September 8th, 2019, 9:30 pm

Silophant wrote:
September 6th, 2019, 1:07 pm
Drive-throughs are banned as of August 8th. However, if their application was deemed complete before then, they proceed through regulatory review under the previous regulation. I'm not sure if there's any way for the public to find out when the application was deemed complete. Hopefully not way back with the initial proposal - I think the CPC would have a hard time denying a drive-through in an I1 zone without the blanket ban.
It’ll say on the bottom of the first page of the staff report when that’s posted.

minneboom
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 160
Joined: October 28th, 2015, 6:05 pm

Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Development & RR Corridor/MinHi Line

Postby minneboom » September 8th, 2019, 11:20 pm

I think they could find plenty to deny this project. The proposed Uhaul project just across the street, which was also very auto oriented, was just recently denied.

Silophant
Moderator
Posts: 3824
Joined: June 20th, 2012, 4:33 pm
Location: The Gateway

Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Development & RR Corridor/MinHi Line

Postby Silophant » September 18th, 2019, 7:27 pm

Here's the packet. Application deemed complete July 30th, so the drive-through is all theirs. Bizarrely, the plan is to literally just build the first floor of the previously approved project, with extra-strong footings so up to nine floors of apartments can be built on top later.

mattaudio
Stone Arch Bridge
Posts: 7936
Joined: June 19th, 2012, 2:04 pm
Location: NORI: NOrth of RIchfield

Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Development & RR Corridor/MinHi Line

Postby mattaudio » September 18th, 2019, 7:45 pm

Gotta say, considering this is a Starbucks drive through, it's not too bad. Fully screened from Hiawatha, the drive-through mess fully on the site property, one curb cut on 42nd. Seems fine.

NickP
Union Depot
Posts: 385
Joined: June 4th, 2012, 5:00 pm

Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Development & RR Corridor/MinHi Line

Postby NickP » September 18th, 2019, 9:20 pm

I don't think I've seen a drive through screened from the street like that before. Has anyone else?

twincitizen
Moderator
Posts: 6203
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm
Location: Standish-Ericsson

Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Development & RR Corridor/MinHi Line

Postby twincitizen » September 18th, 2019, 9:53 pm

Gotta love condition #6 to make sure they aren't just bullshitting their way into only building the Starbucks drive-thru:
"No business licenses shall be issued for the proposed coffee shop until the liner building fronting
Hiawatha Avenue and 42nd Street is constructed." Kudos to city staff for thinking that one up! I have no doubt they would try to get out of building anything but the Starbucks (and Dominos, if that's what the "restaurant" building is).

I have precisely zero expectation that the housing will ever get built. Honestly, you're living in fantasy land if you believe that it will. But if the office building actually gets built as shown on plans, this isn't half bad for a retail development in this location. You do have to have realistic expectations for a site that is over 1/2 mile from a light rail station, on the wrong side of Hiawatha Ave, mostly surrounded by dilapidated/vacant industrial wasteland. This will honestly be a halfway decent complement to the liquor store / day care (?) building adjacent to the north. That said, I am extremely skeptical that they will actually construct the office space as shown here, especially the long skinny leg that extends up Hiawatha screening the drive-thru. I'm 100% certain the developer is going to pull back on some of it. Going back to the first sentence in my post, I think the wording of that condition requiring the liner building should be made even more specific to ensure the city doesn't get duped.

minneboom
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 160
Joined: October 28th, 2015, 6:05 pm

Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Development & RR Corridor/MinHi Line

Postby minneboom » September 18th, 2019, 10:57 pm

A drive thru would be absolutely terrible. You only have to look at the car bucks at Snelling and Marshall in Saint Paul to see what would happen here. Traffic would back up waiting to get into the parking lot, the bike lane would constantly be blocked, and it will be a horrible entrance for pedestrians. This is just a really bad proposal and needs to be denied. The City of Minneapolis banned drive thrus throughout the entire city for a reason.

twincitizen
Moderator
Posts: 6203
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm
Location: Standish-Ericsson

Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Development & RR Corridor/MinHi Line

Postby twincitizen » September 19th, 2019, 8:08 am

Ped access to the Starbucks is really bad, I'll give you that. But I disagree that drive-thru lines will frequently back up all the way onto 42nd. There's actually ample queuing space from the ordering station to the street, wrapping around the building and through the parking lot. This isn't Snelling & Marshall by a long shot. Also, there's no bike lane here...it's a right turn lane. If there ever were a bike lane on westbound 42nd, it would be sandwiched between the westbound lane and the right turn lane, not along the curb.

The traffic issue that will be a problem is people trying to turn left into the site from eastbound 42nd. Here's a Google streetview shot of cars on westbound 42nd waiting at a red light at Hiawatha. The are stacked well beyond the proposed curb cut location. There's only a single eastbound lane (and no shoulder), so someone stopping to turn left will block all eastbound traffic, which could extend queues into Hiawatha Ave (it would take about 6 cars stacked behind the left-turner). That could be solved with a median on 42nd prohibiting left turns into the property, but the Planning Commission doesn't have the authority to force Public Works to install a median.

I was all set to begrudgingly support this (based on CPED staff support and it being an obvious improvement over what's there), but now I don't think I can unless the city guarantees a median blocking left turns into the site.

Really, the best case for future development of this parcel is if they could connect the parking lot with Elevated Liquor to the north, giving direct access from Hiawatha. It would be a lot easier then to have right-in/right-out driveways on both Hiawatha and 42nd, alleviating most traffic concerns.

BoredAgain
Landmark Center
Posts: 251
Joined: July 3rd, 2014, 1:38 pm
Location: Lyndale Neighborhood

Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Development & RR Corridor/MinHi Line

Postby BoredAgain » September 19th, 2019, 11:17 am

twincitizen wrote:
September 19th, 2019, 8:08 am
Ped access to the Starbucks is really bad, I'll give you that. But I disagree that drive-thru lines will frequently back up all the way onto 42nd. There's actually ample queuing space from the ordering station to the street, wrapping around the building and through the parking lot. This isn't Snelling & Marshall by a long shot. Also, there's no bike lane here...it's a right turn lane. If there ever were a bike lane on westbound 42nd, it would be sandwiched between the westbound lane and the right turn lane, not along the curb.

The traffic issue that will be a problem is people trying to turn left into the site from eastbound 42nd. Here's a Google streetview shot of cars on westbound 42nd waiting at a red light at Hiawatha. The are stacked well beyond the proposed curb cut location. There's only a single eastbound lane (and no shoulder), so someone stopping to turn left will block all eastbound traffic, which could extend queues into Hiawatha Ave (it would take about 6 cars stacked behind the left-turner). That could be solved with a median on 42nd prohibiting left turns into the property, but the Planning Commission doesn't have the authority to force Public Works to install a median.

I was all set to begrudgingly support this (based on CPED staff support and it being an obvious improvement over what's there), but now I don't think I can unless the city guarantees a median blocking left turns into the site.

Really, the best case for future development of this parcel is if they could connect the parking lot with Elevated Liquor to the north, giving direct access from Hiawatha. It would be a lot easier then to have right-in/right-out driveways on both Hiawatha and 42nd, alleviating most traffic concerns.
I understand what you are going for, but blocking access from east-bound 42nd with a median effectively blocks access for all traffic on Hiawatha. The site plan is completely inconsistent with adding an additional entrance from the lot for the neighboring business, so your idea above isn't really viable either. Blocking access to Hiawatha traffic would kill this entire plan. How you feel about that option is up to you, but your proposal above to require a median would end this project.

mattaudio
Stone Arch Bridge
Posts: 7936
Joined: June 19th, 2012, 2:04 pm
Location: NORI: NOrth of RIchfield

Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Development & RR Corridor/MinHi Line

Postby mattaudio » September 19th, 2019, 12:19 pm

I would almost be more inclined to support a right-in from northbound Hiawatha AND a median blocking left turns to/from eastbound 42nd. Even though that would add a second curb cut to the site, I bet it would reduce chaotic interactions from a traffic management standpoint.

minneboom
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 160
Joined: October 28th, 2015, 6:05 pm

Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Development & RR Corridor/MinHi Line

Postby minneboom » September 19th, 2019, 5:19 pm

twincitizen wrote:
September 19th, 2019, 8:08 am
Also, there's no bike lane here...it's a right turn lane. If there ever were a bike lane on westbound 42nd, it would be sandwiched between the westbound lane and the right turn lane, not along the curb.
Technically you are right, but there are bike lanes directly east and west of this specific site and this stretch is along the city identified RiverLake Greenway. People frequently bike along 42nd Street to frequent businesses like Bakers Wife and Busters. Having cars constantly turning in and out of a drive thru would make this route even more dangerous than it already is.

I also think this is very similar to Snelling and Marshall, and perhaps even worse. You are directly adjacent to a highway bringing commuters people from the suburbs that probably frequent a lot of drive thrus. There is really not that much more queuing space, see image below from carbucks in Saint Paul.

Image

fehler
Rice Park
Posts: 444
Joined: July 30th, 2012, 8:33 am

Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Development & RR Corridor/MinHi Line

Postby fehler » September 25th, 2019, 9:49 am

Continued to October 21 Planning Comission meeting.

Silophant
Moderator
Posts: 3824
Joined: June 20th, 2012, 4:33 pm
Location: The Gateway

Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Development & RR Corridor/MinHi Line

Postby Silophant » October 21st, 2019, 5:31 pm



Return to “Minneapolis - South, Southwest, and Uptown”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests