Hennepin Avenue Reconstruction (Douglas to Lake St)

[COLSLAW5]

What makes us random internet commentators more knowledgeable than a business owner about where a business owners customers come from?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/biking ... -1.5165954

Some study on bike lanes and business.

Also to address another comment, to argue its only up to the surrounding neighborhoods or the people it will be assessed against isn't a good argument. Putting in place infrastructure like this is all working towards the goal of creating a complete system of safe bikeways for people to get all over the city.

On top of that bus don't just stop in uptown so by adding bus lanes you are directly impaction all the people who ride the bus along the entire lines of all the routes that go through there

[alexschief]

Minneapolis has a lot of adopted plans and policies resulting from years of work by the public, staff, and multiple cycles of elected officials that all point in the same direction:

- The city has adopted a modal priority framework that puts bicycles above cars.
- The city's adopted street design guide says that roads of Hennepin's class should have sidewalk level bikeways.
- The city's transportation action plan lists Hennepin as a future all ages and abilities (AAA) bikeway.
- The city's bicycle master plan has long called for a bikeway on Hennepin
- The long-range investment plan that is helping to fund this reconstruction identifies bicycle safety as part of the purpose and need

In contrast, there are no city policies or documents that support the idea of not accommodating bikes on Hennepin. The direction to city staff through these policies is crystal clear. If the new city council were to tell city staff to ignore all of this past direction, throw out these past plans, and violate the city's own policies, it would set an extremely bad precedent. This is a street redesign not just for the present day, but for the next fifty years. This is a also a critical street that serves as part of a much larger network. That's why it's so important that plans and policy weigh in decisively over more short-term and hyper-local perspectives.

The proposed design is not just compliant with the city's own policies, it is an extremely balanced result. The future Hennepin would improve safety and comfort for all modes, including cars. Even parking and loading is accommodated on-street at locations where it is most needed and where businesses do not have an alternative. It's a really impressive design that manages to provide something for everyone.

I think it will be approved, but it is disappointing that it is the subject of such controversy. People are so used to the status quo of total and unquestioned car dominance, that a road that merely has space for cars but is not ruled by them seems out of the question.

[amiller92]

You will not be surprised to hear that Koski has not responded to my email.

Update: got a form response from her staffer.

[amiller92]

What percentage is from neighborhood residents that drive over?

Probably close to none. It's not worth it to move your car for a few blocks.

What makes us random internet commentators more knowledgeable than a business owner about where a business owners customers come from?

It is very well established that random business owners have no idea what they are talking about.

[amiller92]

Minneapolis has a lot of adopted plans and policies resulting from years of work by the public, staff, and multiple cycles of elected officials that all point in the same direction:

- The city has adopted a modal priority framework that puts bicycles above cars.
- The city's adopted street design guide says that roads of Hennepin's class should have sidewalk level bikeways.
- The city's transportation action plan lists Hennepin as a future all ages and abilities (AAA) bikeway.
- The city's bicycle master plan has long called for a bikeway on Hennepin
- The long-range investment plan that is helping to fund this reconstruction identifies bicycle safety as part of the purpose and need

In contrast, there are no city policies or documents that support the idea of not accommodating bikes on Hennepin. The direction to city staff through these policies is crystal clear. If the new city council were to tell city staff to ignore all of this past direction, throw out these past plans, and violate the city's own policies, it would set an extremely bad precedent. This is a street redesign not just for the present day, but for the next fifty years. This is a also a critical street that serves as part of a much larger network. That's why it's so important that plans and policy weigh in decisively over more short-term and hyper-local perspectives.

The proposed design is not just compliant with the city's own policies, it is an extremely balanced result. The future Hennepin would improve safety and comfort for all modes, including cars. Even parking and loading is accommodated on-street at locations where it is most needed and where businesses do not have an alternative. It's a really impressive design that manages to provide something for everyone.

I think it will be approved, but it is disappointing that it is the subject of such controversy. People are so used to the status quo of total and unquestioned car dominance, that a road that merely has space for cars but is not ruled by them seems out of the question.

None of that is going to convince Goodman's of the world. But the thing that's getting lost in all of this is that the redesign will make Hennepin better to drive, adding turn lanes and moving buses out of traffic. Which is what I stressed in my email to Koski.

[grant1simons2]

*me living on Hennepin knowing full well that everyone around here doesn't dare park on Hennepin*

[thespeedmccool]

*me living on Hennepin knowing full well that everyone around here doesn't dare park on Hennepin*

As a suburbanite who loves visiting Minneapolis, I have literally never considered parking on Hennepin, or any major street for that matter.

I'm pretty confident that these business owners are the only ones who get to those parking spots early enough to use them anyway. Secretly, they're not worried about customers having to walk a block; they're pissed that they will.

[HKM]

It's astonishing to me that so many people with power in Minneapolis (and most US cities) have likely been to both universally enjoyed European cities like Paris, Amsterdam, or Barcelona as well as like Maple Grove and when presented with the choice of which one they'd rather their community be they opt for the wrong one.

[DanPatchToget]

It's astonishing to me that so many people with power in Minneapolis (and most US cities) have likely been to both universally enjoyed European cities like Paris, Amsterdam, or Barcelona as well as like Maple Grove and when presented with the choice of which one they'd rather their community be they opt for the wrong one.

Usually their argument is "we're not Europe" and "our communities were built for cars, that's just how we function." The first argument, while true, doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to be like the places we enjoy visiting in Europe. The second argument is partially true (except for communities built before mass automobile ownership), and that's part of the problem. We depend *way* too much on cars. Healthy and livable communities don't depend almost entirely on a single mode of transportation.

In the context of Hennepin Avenue, I'm pretty sure it was around before automobiles existed, and was only used by people, horses, and horse-drawn trams (later electric trams). So to the people who want the status quo and think their voices aren't being heard, I say they should be grateful the option of completely closing it to car traffic isn't on the table.

[amiller92]

Pretty sure I read somewhere that Hennepin follows the route of "an old Indian path." Those stories tend to be apocryphal but nonetheless, way before cars.

[Tyler]

In the context of Hennepin Avenue, I'm pretty sure it was around before automobiles existed, and was only used by people, horses, and horse-drawn trams (later electric trams). So to the people who want the status quo and think their voices aren't being heard, I say they should be grateful the option of completely closing it to car traffic isn't on the table.

lol, this is amazing reasoning to use with the reactionaries. hope to try it out shortly, might get to see someones head explode

[Tyler]

a figurative explosion. from like... thinking

[Mdcastle]

Maybe if everyone and the city are sure that taking away parking is going cause sales to increase, they should be jumping at the chance to buy out the businesses and then flip them for a quick profit. And if the business owners are sure that having the parking taken away is going to cause sales to decrease, they should be jumping at the chance to sell to people.

[NickP]

*me living on Hennepin knowing full well that everyone around here doesn't dare park on Hennepin*

As a suburbanite who loves visiting Minneapolis, I have literally never considered parking on Hennepin, or any major street for that matter.

I'm pretty confident that these business owners are the only ones who get to those parking spots early enough to use them anyway. Secretly, they're not worried about customers having to walk a block; they're pissed that they will.

This is a brilliant point I never considered!

[Bakken2016]

MAK saying she supports protected bike lanes but not transit priority. She says she wants to phase the 24/7 transit lanes in due to low ridership currently and small business parking concerns.

I'm sorry.... Hennepin Ave S will reopen in 2026, why can't people look past the now....

[thespeedmccool]

She says she wants to phase the 24/7 transit lanes in due to low ridership currently

Low ridership?? Aren't like half of all trips on Hennepin via bus??

[Mister55408]

I have lived in the 55408 for three decades. I do have a dog in this fight. I work on Hennepin Ave since almost two decades. Hennepin Ave needs a road diet for sure. Give us a 4/3 conversion! Like Lyndale is slated soon. Do we need 24/7 busses? I think not. The majority of the riders are during rush hours and we currently have bus lanes and restricted parking during that time. Merchants are fine with this now. They have already bought into it! I see no need for a 24/7 bus lanes. Maybe downtown. But Uptown? .Are we overreaching? Yes. Hennepin is only so wide. It seems very aspirational to have so many items on the proposed plan, and I applaud that in spirit. If we want bikes and more pedestrians we need to sacrifice the 24/7 bus lanes. Hennepin needs a 4/3 conversion to manage traffic speed, and wider better sidewalks and bump outs for a better pedestrian experience. As for bike lanes? How about a protected lane on each side of the street next to the side walks like they do in Netherlands? A keep the parking but meter it.

[alexschief]

I thought MAK's comments were interesting.

I am glad that she unequivocally supported the bikeway. To me, that is the most critical part of the plan for a couple reasons.

1 — There are always strong "just bike on an adjacent street" and "nobody bikes during the winter" voices, and I'm glad that MAK understands that people want to bike on Hennepin because they want to go to the same businesses as everyone else, and that a major reason people don't bike during the winter is that the infrastructure doesn't support it.
2 — The proposed bikeway is curbs and concrete. Once curbs are placed in one location, that's almost always where they stay for generations. If the bikeway were to be removed from the plan, there would be no getting it back in that form.

I was disappointed to hear her more ambiguous support of the 24/7 busway, but I think it's less of a big deal than it may seem for a couple more reasons:

1 — The 24/7 busway will not be implemented until 2026 anyway, so in some sense, it's already being "phased in."
2 — In 2026, the political situation may be entirely different, that's one mayoral election and two council elections from now. It could be worse, but I'm hopeful that it will be better and more attentive to climate and transportation issues. That should also be enough time to assess the impact of the pandemic long-term on transit ridership.
3 — The busway will always have a powerful institutional supporter (Metro Transit) in inter-agency and backroom discussions.
4 — The busway is paint and policy. If it isn't fully supported at the vote before the council this year (say, it remains peak hour only) that can be changed more quickly and costlessly in the future.

Overall, I was impressed by her presentation and I was gratified to hear her talk about mode shift and support for the TAP, even if she didn't explicitly back reducing lane miles. I was really happy to hear her speak about city leaders setting a personal example by traveling by bike and transit. And while it's a bit off-topic here, I was happiest most of all to hear her say that Rethinking 94 will have a highway removal/parkway alternative that is studied.

[daveybabymsp]

I thought MAK's comments were interesting.

I am glad that she unequivocally supported the bikeway. To me, that is the most critical part of the plan for a couple reasons.

1 — There are always strong "just bike on an adjacent street" and "nobody bikes during the winter" voices, and I'm glad that MAK understands that people want to bike on Hennepin because they want to go to the same businesses as everyone else, and that a major reason people don't bike during the winter is that the infrastructure doesn't support it.
2 — The proposed bikeway is curbs and concrete. Once curbs are placed in one location, that's almost always where they stay for generations. If the bikeway were to be removed from the plan, there would be no getting it back in that form.

I was disappointed to hear her more ambiguous support of the 24/7 busway, but I think it's less of a big deal than it may seem for a couple more reasons:

1 — The 24/7 busway will not be implemented until 2026 anyway, so in some sense, it's already being "phased in."
2 — In 2026, the political situation may be entirely different, that's one mayoral election and two council elections from now. It could be worse, but I'm hopeful that it will be better and more attentive to climate and transportation issues. That should also be enough time to assess the impact of the pandemic long-term on transit ridership.
3 — The busway will always have a powerful institutional supporter (Metro Transit) in inter-agency and backroom discussions.
4 — The busway is paint and policy. If it isn't fully supported at the vote before the council this year (say, it remains peak hour only) that can be changed more quickly and costlessly in the future.

Overall, I was impressed by her presentation and I was gratified to hear her talk about mode shift and support for the TAP, even if she didn't explicitly back reducing lane miles. I was really happy to hear her speak about city leaders setting a personal example by traveling by bike and transit. And while it's a bit off-topic here, I was happiest most of all to hear her say that Rethinking 94 will have a highway removal/parkway alternative that is studied.

Totally agree with all of this. Although I wish she was a stronger supporter or 24/7 bus lanes, I think it’s exciting to have someone with so much experience and clout leading public works, assuming she is as excited about the TAP and mode shift as she claimed in the hearing.

[Bakken2016]

MAK has removed 24/7 lanes from the project as of today, and it goes in front of the city council on Thursday.


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