Green Line Extension - Southwest LRT

[Bob Stinson's Ghost]

If the task at hand is building a train tunnel through a fen it would seem daft to proceed without hiring a Dutch engineering firm. I would think that they do this on a daily basis.

Or perhaps I'm overestimating the Dutch?

[DanPatchToget]

We don't hire people outside the country because we think we can do it ourselves and better than any other country. That of course isn't the case for a lot of things including building transit.

I don't know the Dutch's track record when it comes to on-time performance and within budget of building tunnels under bodies of water, but I do know they have a lot of them both in cities and rural areas, so they definitely have the experience. I know of one project that didn't go well, consisting of building a metro/heavy rail line under the IJ (basically a bay) in Amsterdam. More than a billion Euros over budget and opened in 2018 when it was supposed to open in 2011. However, with 84,000 daily riders in 2019 (according to Wikipedia) it looks like it was worth it.

[Korh]

I think I remember hearing brightline hiring some foreign firm to help with some tunnels in Florida but I'm not 100% certain.

[Silophant]

Huh.

[Bakken2016]

Huh.

That doesn’t make sense in my mind, I have reached out to Senator Dibble for his justification.


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[thespeedmccool]

I guess the DFL is really thinking Walz is gonna win, huh?

I mean, if Jensen or Gazelka wins and has oversight over Southwest, it's getting cancelled. Period. This is a gamble and a half.

Also, I think it's wrong to do this, especially considering the state's barely paying for it at all. Hennepin County would be a better fit in that regard, but I'm guessing they don't have the staff to deal with it.

[phop]

Bid for legislators to have a tiny bit more oversight over the project? I also don't get it, seems like just asking for more bureaucratic/political nonsense. That's also a good point about Hennepin County. How is this going to protect Hennepin's very substantial contribution to the pot?

[MNdible]

This runs through Dibble's district. This isn't about what the DFL wants, it's about what Dibble wants. The Met Council didn't pay enough attention to him and his very important constituents.

[Bakken2016]

Convo.JPG

This is what I got back from him, and my follow up questions.

[Silophant]

The Met Council is 100% governor-appointed, so I don't think it makes a difference as far as the ability of a governor to cancel the project or not.

[Anondson]

The state Senate seems to have an oversight that allows the party controlling the Senate to eject governor appointees to departments.

Does the Senate have the same eject-ability of Met Council appointees?

[Trademark]

Could having light rail being under MNDot open up an easier path for highway money to be used for transit projects?

[phop]

The Met Council has managed 2 light rail projects to completion and MnDot 0, what am I missing here (re: Dibble's response)? Perhaps MnDot would still do a better job, but the fact is they have no experience with light rail transit.

[Bakken2016]

More response from Sen Dibble.


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[thespeedmccool]

Could having light rail being under MNDot open up an easier path for highway money to be used for transit projects?

No. Republicans snuck a provision into the transportation bill last year that bans the state from using highway funds for anything but highways. I'm not sure how extreme the final provision was, but the first draft didn't even allow for highway funds to be used for sidewalks, bike shoudlers or stormwater ponds.

[thespeedmccool]

More response from Sen Dibble.


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I don't buy it. The Met Council may serve at the governor's discretion, but it's a transit/metropolitan agency whose staff and members are geared toward that mission. MNDOT is a highway agency with near-zero interest in metropolitan transit.

This is a bad idea.

[Anondson]

No. Republicans snuck a provision into the transportation bill last year that bans the state from using highway funds for anything but highways. I'm not sure how extreme the final provision was, but the first draft didn't even allow for highway funds to be used for sidewalks, bike shoudlers or stormwater ponds.

Did Dibble maybe forget about that provision?

[Silophant]

I don't remember what context I saw this in (probably a book banning bill or something), but I saw a piece of advice on Twitter the other day that I think applies here too: remember that it's extremely easy for a state legislator to introduce a bill, and most bills that are introduced don't make it through committee. Unless and until that happens, the most likely scenario is that this is just something that Dibble and Hornstein can point at to show their constituents that their Concerns are Being Heard.

[Bakken2016]

I don't remember what context I saw this in (probably a book banning bill or something), but I saw a piece of advice on Twitter the other day that I think applies here too: remember that it's extremely easy for a state legislator to introduce a bill, and most bills that are introduced don't make it through committee. Unless and until that happens, the most likely scenario is that this is just something that Dibble and Hornstein can point at to show their constituents that their Concerns are Being Heard.

You hit the nail on the head!


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[thespeedmccool]

I don't remember what context I saw this in (probably a book banning bill or something), but I saw a piece of advice on Twitter the other day that I think applies here too: remember that it's extremely easy for a state legislator to introduce a bill, and most bills that are introduced don't make it through committee. Unless and until that happens, the most likely scenario is that this is just something that Dibble and Hornstein can point at to show their constituents that their Concerns are Being Heard.

This is true, but not reassuring considering that the GOP holds the Senate and probably agrees with this bill. Not only have they voiced support for an audit, quite a few want it cancelled.