Green Line Extension - Southwest LRT

[VacantLuxuries]

I imagine the Met Council is looking into the program that gave the Maryland Purple Line a second lease on life as a way to help bridge the gap. At least I hope they are.

[DanB]

The most recent CMC meeting had predicted trail reopening dates. They said they will try and improve upon these which I really hope happens because these suck.
Kenilworth: 2025
Luce Line(bridge over tracks?): 2025
South Cedar Lake (Hopkins to France): 2024
Cedar Lake(Downtown): 2025
Minnesota River Bluffs: 2022(east segment) and 2023(west segment)

[DanPatchToget]

I thought/hoped the South Cedar Lake Trail would reopen this year. On the Southwest LRT construction website it states "The South Cedar Lake LRT Trail in Hopkins and St. Louis Park continues to remain closed. The Council is coordinating with project partners to open segments of the trail this year." Between Belt Line and Wooddale it's paved and people are already using it. Also between Louisiana and Minnehaha Creek all or part of the trail is paved and I've seen a few people using that.

I assume Luce Line Trail is indeed referring to the pedestrian bridge across the tracks. Some of the supports for the new bridge are already in place, so it's odd to me that they estimate it will take another 3 years to complete the bridge.

[thespeedmccool]

Probably a lot of "set low, beatable expectations" going on at the Met Council right now.

[phop]

Every date there other than the Kenilworth trail just seems nonsensical. If the tunnel is what's going to take the longest time, then what exactly is going to be the hold up with opening the other trails?

[Silophant]

Yeah, they're making pretty good progress on the Glenwood bridges now, I can't comprehend why it would take two more years for that portion of the Cedar Lake trail to reopen.

[SurlyLHT]

Yeah, they're making pretty good progress on the Glenwood bridges now, I can't comprehend why it would take two more years for that portion of the Cedar Lake trail to reopen.

I agree it looked like they were maybe putting the final trail paving in near 394 and Cedar Lake Trail on Monday.

[Anondson]

Forecasting smaller chunk of trail reopens would be great, like when will the Cedar Lake segment in Hopkins linking North Cedar Lake Trail to Lake Minnetonka Regional Trail open?

Right now people have essentially pushed aside the barriers because it’s usable and looks complete between 5th and The Depot.

[MNdible]

My gut tells me that the feds will find some pretty significant cash in the couch cushions to help take the sting out of the local share.

[BoredAgain]

South Cedar Lake (Hopkins to France): 2024

I was just imagining how fantastic it would be if I could ride a bike from Hopkins all the way to France. Would it be a long bridge, or an epic undersea tunnel?

[StandishGuy]

I also don't get why it is going to take so many years to complete the 1/2 mile tunnel. Are they digging with spoons? Seriously, London is finally opening their Corss Rail/ Elizabeth Line this year after several years of delay. However, that extensive tunneling went through one of the densest and oldest cities in Europe. Is the water table thing that complicated?

[SurlyLHT]

I also don't get why it is going to take so many years to complete the 1/2 mile tunnel. Are they digging with spoons? Seriously, London is finally opening their Corss Rail/ Elizabeth Line this year after several years of delay. However, that extensive tunneling went through one of the densest and oldest cities in Europe. Is the water table thing that complicated?

Impression I got is that the engineers messed up and that they haven't had a good engineering plan. This tunnel is pretty much a concrete ditch covered with a roof.


This is also the 2nd large engineering mistake recently. The first is US Bank Stadium's exterior.

[Hero]

There were some sloppy/slanted lines from KSTP in the story, but I wouldn't rank that as one of them. At least one Hennepin County Commissioner (Chair Marion Greene IIRC) has explicitly stated that they don't think Hennepin County taxpayers should foot the entire bill for the latest overages, and that the state should also contribute. A FFGA is already signed and committed, so there is no guarantee of additional money from the feds above and beyond what was already agreed to. The County hasn't yet made an explicit request to the state for funding either, so I'll agree it's a bit of a tossup as to whether it's an entirely accurate account by KSTP. KSTP is likely extrapolating that because the Met Council is a body of the state, so it is assumed that state funding is paying for light rail, when that isn't actually true. State funds appropriated by the legislature do pay for ongoing LRT operations (subsidies), but not for initial construction. Even on the central corridor green line project, the state only provided 10% of the capital costs. They haven't even done that for Southwest. The last money appropriated by the legislature for Southwest probably came nearly a decade ago for initial planning/engineering (MNGOP has held either the house or senate since 1/1/2015).

The current/default funding situation is that Hennepin County will have to pay up to cover this latest massive cost increase. Perhaps the FTA will find a way to cough up $100M or so, but I'd expect the Hennepin County Board will ultimately approve the additional expenditures as they come due, because the alternative is construction coming to a halt. Whether they do that by borrowing (bonding) against future transit sales tax proceeds or actually tap property taxpayers directly over the next couple of years remains to be seen. With the cost of borrowing going up and uncertain sales tax proceeds (flat?, growing more slowly than pre-pandemic?), I'd guess it'll have to be a bit of both to make up that $500 mil.

I wonder how hard it would be to get the state to chip in. It would be nice to keep a bit more state money in the metro area.

[Hero]

I happened to drive by City West Station today and I'm a bit surprised how close it is to the freeway. Is this station for just the little island of buildings or will pedestrian bridges be built across the freeways? I'm not seeing much room for TOD (especially with it being surrounded by freeways). Opus Station is so close maybe it would have been better to have a pedestrian trail under the freeway to serve this area.

[DanPatchToget]

Based on the design plans for City West Station, it seems like it's intended only for Optum employees and park & riders. Doesn't look like there will be any sidewalk/trail connection to the existing developments southwest of the station site, and there are no plans for pedestrian bridges or tunnels across Highway 62. There's potential room for TOD, but it would require chopping down a nice pocket of forest.

[Bakken2016]

There are existing sidewalks that connect to the apartments and retail surrounding the station area, but yeah it probably will be a lot of Park and Riders from that station or people having to connect to SW Prime to finish their trip.

[DanPatchToget]

There are existing sidewalks that connect to the apartments and retail surrounding the station area, but yeah it probably will be a lot of Park and Riders from that station or people having to connect to SW Prime to finish their trip.

Right, but depending on where you're going it could be over half a mile whereas a trail going directly from the station to those developments could cut the distance nearly in half. I also wonder if that trail around the east side of Optum's property will be connected to the station, or if you'll have to walk along 62nd Street to Optum Way. If that's the case then the distance to walk would be almost a mile.

[Anondson]

My wife now works in offices just north of 212/Shady Oak and is hoping there will be pedestrian access to the City West station from the south.

[Bakken2016]

My wife now works in offices just north of 212/Shady Oak and is hoping there will be pedestrian access to the City West station from the south.

Well the station is in the circles area, and there are sidewalks south of the station to the station area. I believe the engineering plans also show Future private development.


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[Anondson]

Yeah, minor but sharp zigzagging, as long as those stay. The sidewalk along City West is … meh.