Green Line Extension - Southwest LRT

[Trademark]

This is a wee bit into fantasy territory, but the mention of connecting the C Line with one of the Southwest LRT stations has me thinking how the C Line could be a north side to southwest suburb connector, a downtown bypass route, and still extending it through South Minneapolis. What comes to mind for me is south on Penn to Glenwood, east on Glenwood to Van White, south on Van White to the Basset Creek Valley Station, then back on Van White/Dunwoody to Lyndale, south on Lyndale to Franklin, east on Franklin to Cedar, and south on Cedar.

Having to transfer at Basset Creek to the Green Line to reach downtown or further east isn't ideal, but when the Blue Line Extension opens that should be a quick one transfer ride to downtown. This would give the north side good access towards the southwest suburbs, a large segment of Franklin would have aBRT, and this hypothetical C Line extension would also connect with a few major routes south of downtown (E Line, D Line, Blue Line, etc.).

I like the thought process. But i just see that route being complicated for people to use with all of the turns. I do love the idea of giving Franklin a brt line though.

[Silophant]

Honestly, idk that we need another line that connects kitty-corner quadrants of the city.

North Minneapolis has the 5/D Line, 7, 9, 14, and 22 that connect it to South, all east of 35W, and the Eastside has the 4, 6, 11, 17, and 25 that all connect to South west of 35W (or immediately adjacent but east in the case of the 11).

For the mid-term aBRT projects, rather than converting the 4 and 22 as currently routed, we should swap the pieces and make one Lyndale Ave line (probably swinging east or west to connect directly to Royalton or Basset Creek Valley station rather than a bleak station at Glenwood and the I-94 viaduct), and a Cedar-Johnson line that crosses the river at the 10th Avenue Bridge.

[Tcmetro]

I think these crosstown routes should be thought of as an overlay instead of a replacement for existing lines. There's a reason the C, the 4, the 22, etc run downtown every 10-20 mins all day, and that's because that's where the connections are and also some pretty important regional destinations.

[Hero]

"I find it puzzling they have half mile spacing for stations with limited development opportunity but 1 mile spacing in north where they could use a little TOD."

I think this comment is right on.

I go back and forth on the 1 mile vs 1/2 mile spacing. The Blue Line in south Minneapolis is much faster than it is in Bloomington. A trip from Franklin station to 46th st station is a minute quicker than the trip from American Blvd station to MOA despite the south Minneapolis section being 3 times longer.

[Hero]

This is a wee bit into fantasy territory, but the mention of connecting the C Line with one of the Southwest LRT stations has me thinking how the C Line could be a north side to southwest suburb connector, a downtown bypass route, and still extending it through South Minneapolis. What comes to mind for me is south on Penn to Glenwood, east on Glenwood to Van White, south on Van White to the Basset Creek Valley Station, then back on Van White/Dunwoody to Lyndale, south on Lyndale to Franklin, east on Franklin to Cedar, and south on Cedar.

Having to transfer at Basset Creek to the Green Line to reach downtown or further east isn't ideal, but when the Blue Line Extension opens that should be a quick one transfer ride to downtown. This would give the north side good access towards the southwest suburbs, a large segment of Franklin would have aBRT, and this hypothetical C Line extension would also connect with a few major routes south of downtown (E Line, D Line, Blue Line, etc.).

I wish we had a quick way of crossing downtown. Sometimes you just want to go from South to Northeast but buses lose so much time downtown it seems like half the trip is crawling though downtown.

[Trademark]

This is a wee bit into fantasy territory, but the mention of connecting the C Line with one of the Southwest LRT stations has me thinking how the C Line could be a north side to southwest suburb connector, a downtown bypass route, and still extending it through South Minneapolis. What comes to mind for me is south on Penn to Glenwood, east on Glenwood to Van White, south on Van White to the Basset Creek Valley Station, then back on Van White/Dunwoody to Lyndale, south on Lyndale to Franklin, east on Franklin to Cedar, and south on Cedar.

Having to transfer at Basset Creek to the Green Line to reach downtown or further east isn't ideal, but when the Blue Line Extension opens that should be a quick one transfer ride to downtown. This would give the north side good access towards the southwest suburbs, a large segment of Franklin would have aBRT, and this hypothetical C Line extension would also connect with a few major routes south of downtown (E Line, D Line, Blue Line, etc.).

I wish we had a quick way of crossing downtown. Sometimes you just want to go from South to Northeast but buses lose so much time downtown it seems like half the trip is crawling though downtown.

We do, it's called get off the bus and bike across downtown and catch the next one before It leaves downtown. But 100% agree.

[Hero]

This is a wee bit into fantasy territory, but the mention of connecting the C Line with one of the Southwest LRT stations has me thinking how the C Line could be a north side to southwest suburb connector, a downtown bypass route, and still extending it through South Minneapolis. What comes to mind for me is south on Penn to Glenwood, east on Glenwood to Van White, south on Van White to the Basset Creek Valley Station, then back on Van White/Dunwoody to Lyndale, south on Lyndale to Franklin, east on Franklin to Cedar, and south on Cedar.

Having to transfer at Basset Creek to the Green Line to reach downtown or further east isn't ideal, but when the Blue Line Extension opens that should be a quick one transfer ride to downtown. This would give the north side good access towards the southwest suburbs, a large segment of Franklin would have aBRT, and this hypothetical C Line extension would also connect with a few major routes south of downtown (E Line, D Line, Blue Line, etc.).

I wish we had a quick way of crossing downtown. Sometimes you just want to go from South to Northeast but buses lose so much time downtown it seems like half the trip is crawling though downtown.

We do, it's called get off the bus and bike across downtown and catch the next one before It leaves downtown. But 100% agree.

What we need is grade separated rail downtown. And maybe a bus route or two that went around the edges of downtown instead of down the heart of it.

[Bakken2016]

https://metrocouncil.org/getdoc/05f34bc ... sItem.aspx

SWLRT project update from 2 days ago, based on many of those images of stations out west, if it wasn't for this tunnel debacle.... this would be opening next year most likely.

[Scott Wood]

"I find it puzzling they have half mile spacing for stations with limited development opportunity but 1 mile spacing in north where they could use a little TOD."

I think this comment is right on.

I go back and forth on the 1 mile vs 1/2 mile spacing. The Blue Line in south Minneapolis is much faster than it is in Bloomington. A trip from Franklin station to 46th st station is a minute quicker than the trip from American Blvd station to MOA despite the south Minneapolis section being 3 times longer.

The spacing in Bloomington is closer to 1/4 mile, with lots of turns slowing things down further. Meanwhile, Franklin and Lake stations are grade separated. It's really not a fair comparison.

[Oreos&Milk]

https://metrocouncil.org/getdoc/05f34bc ... sItem.aspx

SWLRT project update from 2 days ago, based on many of those images of stations out west, if it wasn't for this tunnel debacle.... this would be opening next year most likely.

Serious question...

Why can't they open the Bus LRT operation plan? Even if it's only during the weekdays. Surely they will have a bus alternative plan as they have for the blue line when they shut down segments. I got so used to the bus LRT that it feels second nature now when they close down segments for repairs, or accidents or what..

Why can't they open the Bus LRT version on time? It be a great opportunity to train up drivers and give riders what they wanted the benefits of LRT but on rubber wheels until the LRT line is completed and operational.

I think Metro Transit is hurting the community by not considering such an option in favor of having a big grand ribbon-cutting ceremony that nobody cares about but corrupt politicians. We don't need an "official launch" to the extension, start phasing in Bus LRT to meet the demands of the community! Run it only 20min if ridership is low, higher if the busses are packed.


Could EVEN talk about building the system ON TIME? isn't there maintenance and repair shed on the south segment? Or was that removed? If they still have that, they why couldn't they run the south segment and then just operate a bus bridge around the tunnel?

We have to endure that so often during the blue line. Yea, likely ridership would be lower but that just means we need less service until the official official launch from end to end. People are smart enough to figure out when the train is operational end to end within 3-4 months. There is no point in not trying to figure out a better solution than keeping the ENTIRE route shut down.

I don't get it.

[Trademark]

https://metrocouncil.org/getdoc/05f34bc ... sItem.aspx

SWLRT project update from 2 days ago, based on many of those images of stations out west, if it wasn't for this tunnel debacle.... this would be opening next year most likely.

Serious question...

Why can't they open the Bus LRT operation plan? Even if it's only during the weekdays. Surely they will have a bus alternative plan as they have for the blue line when they shut down segments. I got so used to the bus LRT that it feels second nature now when they close down segments for repairs, or accidents or what..

Why can't they open the Bus LRT version on time? It be a great opportunity to train up drivers and give riders what they wanted the benefits of LRT but on rubber wheels until the LRT line is completed and operational.

I think Metro Transit is hurting the community by not considering such an option in favor of having a big grand ribbon-cutting ceremony that nobody cares about but corrupt politicians. We don't need an "official launch" to the extension, start phasing in Bus LRT to meet the demands of the community! Run it only 20min if ridership is low, higher if the busses are packed.


Could EVEN talk about building the system ON TIME? isn't there maintenance and repair shed on the south segment? Or was that removed? If they still have that, they why couldn't they run the south segment and then just operate a bus bridge around the tunnel?

We have to endure that so often during the blue line. Yea, likely ridership would be lower but that just means we need less service until the official official launch from end to end. People are smart enough to figure out when the train is operational end to end within 3-4 months. There is no point in not trying to figure out a better solution than keeping the ENTIRE route shut down.

I don't get it.

1. We already have enough problems hiring drivers.

2. This route doesn't follow roads most of the time so you'd have to allow a ton of extra time turning to get to the stations and it would be extremely slow.

[Bakken2016]

There is no facility in Hopkins anymore, getting the trains out to the western portion of the line would be extremely cost prohibitive.

Metro Transit currently doesn't have enough operators to run their core local service, they aren't going to run bus version due to that most likely.

[Silophant]

I'm curious what the bustitution plan even is for SWLRT. There's just no good way to get buses to and from 21st St Station except to come in from the east on Franklin, which is very far by road from Bryn Mawr Station's connection to Penn. Can they just skip 21st and use France between Bryn Mawr and West Lake?

[Bakken2016]

I'm curious what the bustitution plan even is for SWLRT. There's just no good way to get buses to and from 21st St Station except to come in from the east on Franklin, which is very far by road from Bryn Mawr Station's connection to Penn. Can they just skip 21st and use France between Bryn Mawr and West Lake?

There are old plans for when they thought it was going to open in 2017..... but they will probably new a brand new connecting bus study closer to the opening of the line.

[DanPatchToget]

Route 612 serves a portion of the Southwest LRT route between Minneapolis and Minnetonka. Definitely not as fast and frequent as the train will be, but unlike the train it goes directly to Uptown.

[Oreos&Milk]

They gotta have some solution Maybe break it down into segments

North Bound:

1 City West Station to Opus Station with stops at Shady Oak station and West Lake Station only for transfers to 2 then direct to downtown
2 Shady Oak Station to West Lake Station then direct to downtown
3 Penn Station (I forget it's new name) to downtown

South Bond:
1 Downtown to Penn Station (stopping at every station) then West Lake Station
2 Downtown stations then direct to West Lake Station and every station stop to Shady Oaks Station
3 Downtown stations then direct to Shady Oaks Station and every station to City West Station.

Something like that where you break the line into 3 independent segments each with a transfer station to allow riders to continue down the line in a slower method for the station to station mobility but focusing on moving that segment to the endpoint downtown or from the endpoint from downtown.

I'm sure they will come up with a better solution, but not having a solution is NOT an option! Protesters will pounce on their ability to inflict much damage by shutting down a transit line with no easy alternative and will greatly hurt it's dependability.

As for the driver shortage, didn't realize it was still a thing after the pandemic. They should consider more flexibility in driver schedules. When I tried being a driver the schedule required me to work an AM and a PM shift. Why not permit an AM or PM only option? Different pay rate to discourage / encourage double shifts but having that flexability I think would be better and attract more drivers.

Also more options such as AM or PM shift with a 2-3 shift of other work such as cleaning busses or trains. That way drivers can work 6 hours and be DONE for the day! Otherwise they have to either live next to their work or stay at work during the mid-day break. That really sucked when I went from the training program to the actually driving the broken shift. Let alone dealing with the actual driving and work of the job!! If I could have bid on a shift cleaning buses for 2.5 hours then drive my 4hr. route and be DONE for the day and be done for the day then I for sure would have viewed the job as more desirable!

Granted that wouldn't be enough slots for everyone but it would at least give more options so new drivers could bid on "full day shifts" faster and not have to work 8+ years before getting full day shifts! Oh and any driver who was STUCK with a split shift STILL ease up on the uniforms! let them wear a Vest like Walmart so they can just wear that over a solid color shirt let them wear shorts of their choice or pants (dispatch can deny them and make them change with the official uniform they must keep in their work locker just in case they bring in something to hazard to work in) and stop making work so unbearable!

I think that is why turnover is so high, I was put in my routes with 2-3 weeks before I had to change to all new routes! I had 3 different routes that were all different, then I had to learn all new routes on my own again!? I drove the 25 route end to end in my personal car at least 4 times! I felt comfortable with it and I would have stayed if THAT was my only route for a while so I could focus on learning it. but nope! I had 2 other routes in that afternoon & in a few weeks I would have all new routes! They set up new drivers to fail IMO and until they come up with a way to allow an easier period of training new drivers turnover will be high. My apologies for the rant, but it's not a driver shortage! It's an impossible working condition that makes drivers quit!

[schwinnletour]

Ugh, they were promising reopening the Cedar Lake Regional Trail this fall. Now 2024? Major bummer. Did bike the stretch from Beltline to Wooddale and it was pretty nice before it ended in gravel after the Wooddale underpass.
"
The Cedar Lake Regional Trail is closed from Excelsior Boulevard in Hopkins east to France Avenue in St. Louis Park. The closure is due to Southwest Light Rail Transit construction. The trail is scheduled to reopen in 2024.

The trail between Excelsior Blvd and 11th avenue in Hopkins is anticipated to open in July 2022

A detour is in place that utilizes the North Cedar Lake Regional Trail and the local bicycle network to connect users to the Midtown Greenway. There is a detour around impacted areas in Minneapolis as well. View detailed closure/detour maps for the whole route.

The trail will be fully reconstructed upon completion of the project and will include grade-separated crossings at Beltline Boulevard, Wooddale Avenue and Blake Road.
"

[VacantLuxuries]

When were they saying Cedar Lake Regional Trail would reopen this fall? I've gotten the weekly construction emails for the past year and a half and I'm pretty sure that's been off the table since they changed construction methods on the south end of the tunnel ages ago.

They have said that they put the worst case, most conservative reopening estimates out so that if there's an opportunity to open things sooner, it'll be a happy change instead of a depressing one.

[Oreos&Milk]

When were they saying Cedar Lake Regional Trail would reopen this fall? I've gotten the weekly construction emails for the past year and a half and I'm pretty sure that's been off the table since they changed construction methods on the south end of the tunnel ages ago.

They have said that they put the worst case, most conservative reopening estimates out so that if there's an opportunity to open things sooner, it'll be a happy change instead of a depressing one.

I'm not one for graffiti or unauthorized pop-ups art work, however... it seems appropriate if a local artist were to create a sleeping Snorlax



I think it would soften the frustrations ever so slightly with a bit of humor. (implying the closure is due to a sleeping pokemon blocking the trail) Maybe even the construction closure maps could get in on the fun? hmm.. slow news week I guess..

[NickP]

Haha I think that would be super cool public art.