Northern Lights Express

[HuskyGrad]

Since this looks increasingly realistic, I have some basic questions for people more in the know:

- Would this be double tracked the entire way? Or would there be timed passes? Or would there be just a single trainset operating each day, going back and forth?
- Assuming it would use diesel locomotives and nothing would be electrified? Are there any plans for electrification?
- If this funding passes by the end of the session, when would this service expected to launch?

https://dot.state.mn.us/nlx/about.html

MnDOT indicates four round trips per day. This document shows the proposed improvements along the cooridor.
https://dot.state.mn.us/nlx/documents/m ... boards.pdf

[thespeedmccool]

So this is interesting: Minnesota DFLers introduced two different versions of the NLX funding bill in the House, one which would pay for it through bond sales, and the other which would pay for it with cash. Bond version and cash version.

Looks like they're determined to get this done however they can. If Republicans won't go allow with it in a bonding bill (which requires a 3/5 majority and therefore GOP support,) the DFL will just spend cash on it and do it themselves.

[VacantLuxuries]

Gotta love the things that are possible when people who actually want to get things done are given the power to do so.

[Oreos&Milk]

That's great news, but we really are going to have a Duluth to Minneapolis train transit line that dumps people out on an outside platform under the 94 entrance ramp bridge?

Would be nice if they could lease a floor or half a floor in the Ford Center and build a skyway to the platform or an at-grade crossing. They could use that for the Northstar waiting room as well given those trains are way too infrequent as well. Plus they could sell their bus passes and operate a tourist center or maybe partner with DID to outsource.

Very disappointing considering we have such a grand SPUD that has "no trains" or next to none, while we are expecting to have nearly a dozen trains dumping riders underneath a freeway entrance bridge. Nearly a million yearly ridership is projected on NLX alone.

I'd be very interested to hear about what the plan is if any as to long-term goals or ideas for making this "depot" less of an embarrassment.

[Trademark]

I don't hate the Minneapolis station. There is an indoor waiting area that can be used and it has a good connection to the light rail. Until more tracks are needed and Ramp B can be converted into a future station utilizing part of the 394 trench for tracks, I think Minneapolis station will serve just fine. And capital costs should be spent on building the system first before making a station look nicer.

[mulad]

HF 409, the non-bond version, is probably the one to support in the House, since the state constitution limits total bonding for railroad projects to $200 million (Article 11, sec. 5.i. https://www.revisor.mn.gov/constitution/#article_11). I'm not sure how much of that limit is currently in use, but there's little reason to dip into that pot when we still have the considerable budget surplus.

(And that limit should be repealed from the constitution, or at least updated and be set to increase with inflation rather than being a fixed value.)

[Silophant]

Oh, yikes. Wonder when that was enacted, and how much $200M then is worth in 2023 dollars.

[mulad]

Looks like it dates back to 1982, and the Bureau of Labor Statistics CPI inflation calculator puts that at about $606 million (Nov 1982 -> Dec 2022). We might want to dig into that a bit, since I'm curious if that would have been proposed in connection to any passenger service at the time, perhaps including the old Amtrak service to Duluth that existed then but was fighting for survival. It might have been intended for other things too, like just general freight improvements.

https://www.lrl.mn.gov/mngov/constitutionalamendments
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/laws/1982/0/ ... r/600/pdf/

I see that also references Minnesota Statutes 222.49, which has changed a bit since then

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/2021/cite/222.49

[DanPatchToget]

At first I wasn't sure about switching the southern terminus from Target Field to SPUD, but could this cut costs at least a little since SPUD is already built for Amtrak (platforms, baggage handling, waiting room, ticket office, etc.)?

[Bakken2016]

Does anyone know if Wisconsin also has to approve this due to the station in Superior? Or is Minnesota funding the whole thing?

[Silophant]

My understanding is that Minnesota is funding the whole thing, though Superior may be chipping in something for the station itself.

[grant1simons2]

I hear they're offering a couple free drink tickets to The Anchor and 50% one breakfast at KD's

[thespeedmccool]

Hearing on NLX funding, lifting the commuter rail moratorium, and $20 million in railway funding this afternoon in the Senate. Today at 3 pm: here

[MinneapBliss]

Thanks for posting the link! I got through part of it, was happy to hear the testimony of the supporters. Had to pause right when the first opponent was starting to explain how regional/commuter rail = BAD...probably saved myself some high stress moments as a result.

[thespeedmccool]

Thanks for posting the link! I got through part of it, was happy to hear the testimony of the supporters. Had to pause right when the first opponent was starting to explain how regional/commuter rail = BAD...probably saved myself some high stress moments as a result.

Yeah, the opposition is disappointing, but supporters were prepared. Especially impressed to hear how closely they've coordinated with BNSF to ensure NLX will be more reliable vis-a-vis Northstar.

Lots of supporters distancing themselves from Northstar, actually. Notable that Senator Dibble didn't bring or request a bill on Northstar extension for 'train day.'

[Tom H.]

I thought I had heard that someone was going to introduce a bill to fund the Northstar extension to St Cloud, but I don't believe I've seen it. Maybe the political strategy is to build NLX, see its success, then use that success to motivate the St Cloud extension while simultaneously rebranding it from commuter rail to regional rail.

I'm hopeful that NLX's success leads to an eventual core regional rail system with lines to Duluth, Rochester, St Cloud, and Mankato. If we ever made it to that point, we'd have to have a very difficult discussion about whether to brand the whole system as "North Star" or "Northern Lights"...

[grant1simons2]

Idea: City - Name (Accent color)

Duluth - Northern Lights (Green)
Fargo - Tatanka (Brown)
Rochester - Zumbro (Red)
Mankato/Sioux Falls - Minneopa (Blue)
Des Moines/KC - Southern Plains (Yellow)
Winnipeg - Great Expedition (White)

[mattaudio]

Will NLX use Amtrak Airo/Siemens Venture trainsets?

From a service standpoint, how could the Northstar Bombardier Bi-Levels be integrated into a common regional rail service brand? Northstar's 6 trainsets are woefully underutilized and could probably support 4-6 trips per day to St. Cloud and Mankato. But eventually it would be great to have consistent equipment and service on each regional route.

[Silophant]

I saw a mention somewhere that MnDOT is intending to buy into the Amtrak Midwest pool. I haven't seen any confirmation of whether the Amtrak Midwest equipment is considered Airo or not.

Idea: City - Name (Accent color)

Duluth - Northern Lights (Green)
Fargo - Tatanka (Brown)
Rochester - Zumbro (Red)
Mankato/Sioux Falls - Minneopa (Blue)
Des Moines/KC - Southern Plains (Yellow)
Winnipeg - Great Expedition (White)

Wouldn't Winnipeg just be an extension north from Fargo?

[grant1simons2]

I would think there would be more trains running daily to Fargo versus Winnipeg