Green Line Extension - Southwest LRT

[Mdcastle]

I'd say building the tracks on the biggest infrastructure project in the state in the wrong place is a bigger deal than someone sneezing on a train.

[Didier]

KSTP is owned by Stanley Hubbard. You should look him up if not familiar.

[Nick]

It's so wild to have followed this project for two decades and periodically have new political, professional, or computer characters emerge and assure me that, clearly, there's nothing to see here--all is well. It's a huge self-own on my part. Am I still going to be doing this in 2030? Very humbling.

[Tom H.]

Getting back to the substance of the issue here - I could have sworn I read somewhere that the 25' clearance was needed for construction worker safety, which implies it's not an operational requirement. Can anyone verify that statement? Furthermore, it's stated in the article that the 25 foot clearance was a "design criteria" and it's not clear to me that that's a binding or decimal-point-exact requirement, or rather a general design principle with some implied leeway.

If the heavy construction is concluded and it's true that this was a construction safety issue and not an operational issue, then what is the recourse? Fining the contractor for poor safety practices?

[COLSLAW5]

looks like the 25' comes from a federal railway workplace safety. Anything under 25 feet gets put into a different category for worker protection rules

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/s ... I/part-214

[twincitizen]

Didn't read the whole article because I know how much KSTP loves to hate light rail, so the gist is there was a hiccup in which recently installed light rail track in the Kenilworth Corridor was one foot too close to the parallel freight track.

https://kstp.com/5-investigates/new-pro ... 21t5bSMGNI

“I have always understood that we have 25 feet there, so we’re talking to our engineer to understand, ‘OK what happened? What’s going on?'” Alexander said. “Because we measured it as well… we’re showing about seven inches short of the 25 feet.”

Alexander added that Metro Transit is now in the process of finding a “resolution,” but he would not predict what it will take to increase the distance between the light rail and freight rail tracks at the crossing in question.

“First of all, we’re still working out there,” Alexander said. “We’re not done yet.”

If the 25' requirement is only for during construction, Jim Alexander's quotes in this article don't make a lot of sense. If it was only a construction thing, why wouldn't he just say that instead of this?

But it has to just be a construction thing, right? There are several LRT systems around the US that run literally adjacent to freight tracks. The Blue Line in South LA does. San Diego too. Bottineau's original alignment was going to run directly alongside freight tracks until BNSF stopped negotiating.

[Tom H.]

The latest SWLRT problem: Wrong placement of tracks

Despite the KSTP-esque headline and credulously framing the "concerned neighbors" as acting in good faith, the real nuggets from this reporting are:

• Won't affect the overall price tag of the project
• This is an operational concern, as anything less than 25 feet would require a crash wall "according to the project's design"
• Jim Alexander (Met Council): "I don't consider this a big issue"
• Mark Wegner (TC&W): "isn't a concern, they can rectify it", "potential annoyance", "not a safety concern"
• Lots of breathless quotes about neighbor's feelings about safety

I also expect there to be a follow-up report about the safety problems caused by concerned citizens wandering onto construction sites and active freight rail tracks in their pajamas with tape measures.

[J. Mc]

I just hope the width between rails on the tracks is correct...

[angrysuburbanite]

Just curious - were there any connecting bus studies for the Hopkins/St. Louis park sections of the line? Or is it too early for this kind of thing to begin planning?

[Korh]

I think there might be plans to reroute the 612 off mainstreet unfortunately since downtown hopkins station has a planned loop built in and its awkward to get to coming down 7th, There might be a case to increase the 615 to half an hour frequency since it gets close to 3 or 4 of the stations but that might be optimistic

[angrysuburbanite]

I see, I think some better north-south bus connections should be made along a lot of the corridor.
also...
Construction Update!!!
I got some pictures at the SW Station today, I'd share them on here but I don't know how... Some thoughts:
- Pleasantly surprised to see a very easy pedestrian connection to the nearby restaurants and parks via a large sidewalk and seating area outside the southern facade of the structure. While it is definitely a park and ride by design, there are definitely good options for pedestrians. It seems the contractor left the kiss-and-ride loop sidewalk unblocked as if to encourage people to come look. It is also worth mentioning that I saw a surprising number of SouthWest Transit bus riders walking to their final destination rather than driving.
- The station platforms are much brighter and more open-air than I thought, with lots of natural light flooding through, which makes it feel less boxed in than the MOA station on the Blue Line. A lot of this is probably due to the fact that the interior was painted white, so it feels super clean and modern. The waiting room is operational and looks like it will be staffed which will help keep riff-raff out and help the many first-time riders that will eventually use the station. Love the waiting room, too.
- The interlocking signals at the end of the eastbound platform are on and blaring red as if to tell an imaginary light rail driver to not move forward. I don't know how to feel about this. Happy because its a milestone? Or sad that they will probably burn out before service starts?
- This is a general observation I had at the SW Station and a mini bike tour I did of the route from Minnetonka to St. Louis Park: the wayfinding signage near and at each station is a huge step up for Metro Transit. Each station has a stately pylon T sign (SW station has a special one with their logo on it too) which does an excellent job establishing the route's presence in the area. Signage in the SW Station parking ramp and lobby are all very clear and easy to understand, which is also true for the "normal" stations I saw too. There are also lots of pedestrian-scale signs along many major trails and sidewalks even in places like the Eden Prairie Town Center station, which is awesome and I wish the rest of the system would adopt that more, especially in suburban areas where access is limited (Orange Line would benefit a lot from this I think).
- From my aforementioned bike tour a couple weeks ago: the new bike trail infrastructure in Saint Louis Park is a breeze and was getting great use. The grade separation, lighting, and signage were all really good--this is going to become like a true bike highway once the full thing is open. The bridge at Beltline (?) station was just the right grade to make it possible to bike up it without getting tired. Going back to signage (sorry, I love nerding out about public wayfinding...), lots of well-placed, small plaques along the bike trail alert bikers of the presence of the nearby train stations very well, and I could see many tired bikers taking the light rail a couple stops down to speed their trip up. Ample bike parking at the DT Hopkins station. The whole experience along the trail almost felt a bit European...
- A LOT of TOD going up all over the place, but y'all know about that already.

It's still a real shame that SWLRT has had so many issues, but I really think that each station was planned intricately from the wayfinding, interactions of different modes (Golden Triangle station has bus shelters and tactile boarding strips!), and future land use plans. Outside of whatever happened with 3A/3C in Minneapolis, the alignment isn't terrible and the planners made the best of it. Maybe it's just because SWLRT was what got me into transit in the first place, but I really think that the infrastructure and planning of the line is something to behold. It all feels very classy/first rate in my opinion.

Anyways, that was your really long, illegible, overly positive construction update from a kid way too invested in the construction and planning involved with the Southwest Light Rail. I've said it before: cannot wait for this thing to open!

[COLSLAW5]

I biked this from Opus all the way back to lake street station yesterday and I have to agree. The level of development and planning that has gone in around the stations is impressive. I was really liking the wayfinding signs, I really feel like signage is something that can always be improved and helps people not from the area to connect with and move around better than they might have otherwise.

One thing I struggle with is bike parking, I really wish there was a more secure way to lock up bike more like a park and ride. I don't know what the answer is but I just don't see ever locking my bike up at a station and leaving it there all day and not worry if it will be there when I get back.

[Tcmetro]

Metro Transit has bike lockers at some stations and park and rides.

https://www.metrotransit.org/bike-lockers

[angrysuburbanite]

These were some of the best signage touches I could find on Google Maps from what I remember. It is just such an inexpensive way to make riding less confusing, I hope that we can retrofit our existing METRO infrastructure with similar stuff, or make it more visually consistent.
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.8600743 ... ?entry=ttu
(EP Town Center sign at crosswalk)
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.920816, ... ?entry=ttu (Cute mini-pylon along the bike trail - I do remember this one being pretty beat up when I saw it unfortunately.)
I believe that the bike tunnel by the Louisiana Ave station had little placards, as well as the staircase from the bike bridge on Beltline; I'd imagine many of the other stations will get this as landscaping and other finishing touches begins elsewhere. The giant "T" logo on the circulation buildings at the Minneapolis stations is a cool touch, too.

I know I'm making a big deal out of this, but it is great to see signage guided towards bikers on a line originally intended for suburb-to-downtown park-ride commuting. It's a step in the right direction, I think. It's just crazy that this project has been in development/construction so long that travel patterns, construction inflation, and development patterns have changed around it, for the better or worse.

Agree on bike parking, seemed absent as of now, hopefully there is some in the plans outside of the Hopkins station. There was a huge empty corner at the SouthWest Station that would be perfect for one of those Netherlands-esque indoor bike parking corrals, though I'd doubt too many people would be biking to that station in particular unless there are some vast cultural shifts in Eden Prairie.

[COLSLAW5]

I love the signage I really think its huge and the more we remind people its there the better. I wonder if they will add any signage on the freeways or streets indicating park and rides.

as for bike storage I know metro transit has some of their bike lockers but i also found this bikelink. Looks like it even tracks the open spaces on their website too. Something like this would be really cool for more secure parking.

https://www.bikelink.org/

[angrysuburbanite]

I do know there are a couple park-ride signs with large "(T) METRO" logos along highways 169, 212, and 62, but they got covered up a couple weeks ago to avoid confusion.

Love that "smart bike parking" idea.

[alexschief]

I've definitely posted this before, but just out of college I lived along the Green Line when it opened and I had an internship in downtown St. Paul. I would frequently take the train to work in the morning when it was cold and I was bleary eyed. Then in the afternoon, I would bike back home.

That kind of transit/bike hybrid commute is really wonderful and it gives you a lot of flexibility to adjust if the weather changes. People and working along the SWLRT are going to have the best possible version of this option, and I hope many take advantage.

[rmc]

I mean, now we're just complaining about the media behavior. Same as it ever was.

And complaining about residents monitoring/measuring a public works project in their neighborhood? That's how it's supposed to work. If residents don't keep an eye on a project, who else should? The Met Council doesn't have a great history of self-accountability.

The question that I haven't seen answered is, what is the significance of the 25' offset? Was it just a spec someone made up?

Regardless, a 25 foot offset was engineered and a 7 inch miss seems pretty big in the tight quarters of the Kenilworth corridor. Maybe the fix is relatively easy, but it won't be free.

[thespeedmccool]

And complaining about residents monitoring/measuring a public works project in their neighborhood? That's how it's supposed to work.

That is not, in fact, how it's supposed to work.

[Silophant]

Random people should not be entering active construction sites without PPE (or with PPE, to be clear), no matter how sure they are that they know more about safety than all the professionals.

The 25' offset is what BNSF made up as a spec to not require a crash wall between their freight tracks and the LRT tracks further north. This appears to be pretty much made up, as the FRA has no requirements in this scenario and there's plenty of examples across the country of LRT and mainline rail operating side by side without a crash wall. As far as the expense to fix it, if the contractor didn't follow the plans, that's on them to fix, it won't cost the Met Council extra.