Minneapolis & St. Paul Fantasies and Speculations

[Nathan]

One of my great fantasies is to really create a unified "eat street" and actually connect the Loring Park and Stevens Neighborhoods. I'd propose a freeway trench cap over i94 creating a new park and an east/west connection between loring park's oak grove, and stevens' 17th. People traveling down Nicollet will have a hard time realizing that they've just spanned an interstate. I figure with some good scale buildings and public spaces you could attract a lot of people to a new neighborhood with a capacity of 1,000-2,000 added to the DT population. Not completely thought out yet, and yes it would cost a bundle.

[min-chi-cbus]

I like your vision.....a lot! I'd have to think though, that the population of all that new development (i.e. new neighborhood) would be easily double the 1K-2K you estimated, judging by the scale you used on the left and the sheer number of parcels developed at those densities. It could be anywhere from 3K to 5K, which may make the project a tad more worthy of the likely $200M+ it would cost to build it! A hotel may be a good idea too, given its proximity to the convention center, its likely amazing views, and the tax revenue hotels can generate.

[mulad]

There's a hotel planned on the block just west of the old Abbott Hospital, isn't there?

[Wedgeguy]

There is an extended stay hotel proposed, but there has been little of any movement that I've read about.

[min-chi-cbus]

Pretty dinky too....maybe 50-100 rooms.

[Wedgeguy]

Extended stays are generally not like big convention hotel as they are meant for very different clientel. I think if they were to d the Land bridge over the freeway that would help to ge the hotel to begin faster. But at this point the landbridge is a pipedream of some of us that see so much potential that could happen from it. But they would also have to include a 94 rebuild into that as well to get bad design issues taken care of at the same time. MONEY!!

[mattaudio]

I like the cap quite a bit, but I'd suggest a plaza surrounded by low-slung buildings near Nicollet, and higher buildings along LaSalle and 1st. It seems like these would sort of frame the are and draw activity towards Nicollet in the middle. Great idea though! Maybe a matching cap between Portland and 11th Ave to connect Elliot Park and Phillips!

[tabletop]

Agreed. After 94 is capped the next best place to go would be 35w from between 26th st and Franklin. A park right there would have some killer views, and do wonderful things for that area.

[mulad]

I guess I'm not really sold on the idea of capping freeways if all we're going to get out of it is more grassy space to mow, possibly lined with trees that stay stubby for years and die as soon as they mature. I really want something that heals the gap in the streetscape. If that area remains flat, it still seems like it'd just turn into/remain a wind channel blasting people with freezing air in the winter and leaving people unprotected from the sun in the summer.

I'd prefer something kind of like this High Street bridge over I-670 in the Short North neighborhood of Columbus, Ohio. It should cut down on the noise just about as much, and I wouldn't necessarily mind if the freeway still got capped and had grassy areas behind the buildings.

[min-chi-cbus]

I was waiting for the High Street example! I went to Ohio State Univ and was there before, during and after they "capped I-670", and BOY was it a success (and simple)! I can't imagine THIS kind of cap would cost NEARLY as much as the one being fantasized by fotoapparatic either!!

[Nathan]

I think the point of actually creating the cap here is to create a seamless connection between DT, Loring, and Stevens. The connection of the East and West Streets and the parks make it a viable neighborhood and investment.

[mulad]

Yeah, restoring an east-west connector or two would be a good thing. Connecting Oak Grove to 17th Street seems like the most logical one, though the most technically challenging since it makes a 4-way intersection right above the middle of the Interstate. Cap the southeast and northwest quadrants entirely, though my preference is still to have buildings or at least partially-enclosed walkways along the street edge.

[Nick]

Yeah, restoring an east-west connector or two would be a good thing. Connecting Oak Grove to 17th Street seems like the most logical one, though the most technically challenging since it makes a 4-way intersection right above the middle of the Interstate. Cap the southeast and northwest quadrants entirely, though my preference is still to have buildings or at least partially-enclosed walkways along the street edge.

Sorta like this?

[mulad]

Kinda sorta. The Dinkytown bridge has the benefit that land actually runs up close enough to the north and south corners that stuff can actually be built there (not quite on the north side, but close). The other corners over the trench are some of the numerous examples of unused plaza-like spaces in the Twin Cities. They'd actually be great spots to park some food trucks or something...

Anyway, that basic idea, but with more permanent stuff hanging off the bridge corners. If actual buildings can't be put in, I'd like to see semi-enclosed spaces similar to (and hopefully a bit better than) what's on the Cedar Street bridge over I-94 in Saint Paul:

[MSPtoMKE]

I too love the idea of capping the interstate in this area, and connecting 17th and Oak Grove over it goes a long way to accomplishing the reconnection. But I also think just having green space or a plaza is a bit of a missed opportunity, it is almost as if it is memorializing the concealed freeway. That isn't to say open space shouldn't be part of the plan, I just don't think it should trace the contours if the freeway. It is probably more expensive to build a cap that can support a building above it, so an economical plan would probably have at least some of the cap be open space, but I think there should be some development above the freeway as well. Other than that, the plan is great!

[Nathan]

This is where a bit of the idea started for me, I just figure it's easier to put less building over the interstate...

http://www.theparkdallas.org/

[min-chi-cbus]

This is where a bit of the idea started for me, I just figure it's easier to put less building over the interstate...

http://www.theparkdallas.org/

F'ing Dallas! What AREN'T they doing these days?! The worst part is, for me, that many/most people in the city have NO desire to live in an urban environment -- these are suburbanites, through and through! I say that because anybody who is fleeing their city to pastures notorious for being cheap and tax free is probably looking for space and/or home amenities galore.....and probably NOT looking for urban flats with less square footage. This is just my thinking, not necessarily truth.

[Nathan]

My understanding is that they won some federal money to do it, and it's kind of funny because I think they won it away from PDX... which actually would have benefited and utilized it greatly. But maybe Dallas needs it to spur an urban lifestyle.

[min-chi-cbus]

My understanding is that they won some federal money to do it, and it's kind of funny because I think they won it away from PDX... which actually would have benefited and utilized it greatly. But maybe Dallas needs it to spur an urban lifestyle.

That actually makes me angry, because Dallas is one American city that doesn't currently need ANY help getting developments underway. Every developer wants a piece of TX right now! I don't understand the decision-making process for things like that one bit!

[Wedgeguy]

POLITICS!!