The Venue at Dinkytown - (14th Avenue SE & 5th Street SE)

[Wedgeguy]

FYI what is with the quote button not working 5th time I've tried in 2 days.

Try Lisa Goodman for one, I'm sure there are more, but I know she has been in their way too long. She is one oif the big road blocks as she tends to think she knows all the answers and her way is the right way!

[gpete]

I guess it depends on the definition of lifer, but I don't see a huge crisis of "lifer" councilmembers...

For reference:

Barb Johnson - 4 terms
Lisa Goodman - 4 terms
Sandy Colvin Roy - 4 terms (not seeking re-election)
Gary Schiff - 3 terms (not seeking re-election)
Don Samuels - 3 terms (not seeking re-election)
Robert Lilligren - 3 terms (competitive re-election contest; lost DFL endorsement)
Betsy Hodges - 2 terms (non seeking re-election)
Elizabeth Glidden - 2 terms
Diane Hofstede - 2 terms (competitive re-election contest; lost DFL endorsement)
Cam Gordon - 2 terms
John Quincy - 1 term
Kevin Reich - 1 term
Meg Tuthill - 1 term (competitive re-election contest; lost DFL endorsement)

Alright, back on topic.

[woofner]

It's not really a good excuse in this situation, because clearly there has been guidance for these parcels to be zoned C3A for the last 15 years, but I think it's reasonable to put the breaks on development in the area until the Dinkytown SAP is concluded. Everyone whose spleens have been vented on this forum should check out this page:

http://www.minneapolismn.gov/cped/proje ... kytownplan

You may want to contact Haila Maze and give her your input on what Dinkytown should look like (cc your council member of course), as well as encourage her in light of this recent controversy, to present opportunities for public input.

[FISHMANPET]

Everyone says this SAP is going to be done in October, when the staff member said there exists no reality in which a SAP could be completed in that short of a time frame. And also it was stated that a project that's already proposed when a SAP is enacted is exempt from the SAP. This SAP also isn't being carried out by the city, so this future SAP is not at all a reason to stop a currently proposed project for a myriad of reasons.

[woofner]

Please check the domain on the link I provided, then click on it and read the sentence that states "The intent is to complete the planning process by late fall/early winter 2013."

Again, I think it's a shoddy excuse for this particular project, and I agree that they should have had a moratorium in place before any project was denied. It is in fact being carried out by the City and will become city policy, so it makes perfect sense to hold off on development, any of which has the potential to contradict the plan. I agree that they haven't followed the steps properly, though, and that it is likely just an excuse for a position that's based on politics (maybe not in Lisa Goodman's case though, it's not like she has anything to worry about). But rather than argue with me, who mostly agrees with you, on a message board full of people who agree with you, you're better off trying to have an impact on the plan.

[lordmoke]

City Pages is spreadin' the fear now, too (see reference to Al's at end of article):
http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2013 ... roject.php

[MNdible]

Did City Pages essentially quote his entire article? They're terrible -- we don't let people do that on this board, but somehow it's cool for them to do so?

[Viktor Vaughn]

The claim that only national chains can afford retail space in these new developments is obviously not true. World Street Kitchen, for example, opened in one of the apartment developments. However, it does seem like most of the retail spaces in these buildings are occupied by national chains. Also, I can't really think of any non-food service local retail going into these buildings (off the top of my head at least).

So here's a project for one of you urban studies grad students out there -- What proportion of these mixed use developments built since the mid 00's rent retail spaces to national chains? How does that compare to pre-development retail that was displaced, if any?

Please post the results of your academic study back here. Thanks in advance.

[gobezlij]

Councilmember Gordon posted on his blog his rationale for voting against this in committee: http://secondward.blogspot.com/2013/07/ ... pment.html

I think his position is reasonable. This vote doesn't preclude the Opus development at a later date, provided the SAP is designed to support this type of development in this location. As redeciple notes above, the work now is to impact the SAP.

[gpete]

Viktor -- not an exhaustive list, but here are some local businesses that are housed in relatively recent housing developments:

Mozaic (Uptown): Origami Sushi
Lumen on Lagoon (Uptown): Covered (clothing boutique)
Murals (Lyn Lake): Tiger Sushi
Greenleaf (Lyn Lake): World Street Kitchen; Regla de Oro (gift shop)
West River Commons (Cooper): Longfellow Grill; Corazon (gift shop)

[Wedgeguy]

They just want time to make a case for why not. This is a blind attempt to work to find away to make this go away.

[Wedgeguy]

This is just Linden Hills part 2. Keep a landowner from being able to develop their property. This again is the same with Colfax, These people like to play GOD!! Bend to only my wishes, I am the all powerful with all the answers. We know in history where that can lead.

[RailBaronYarr]

If you want the list in Dinkytown, which is highly relevant:

- 1301 University Ave: Purple Onion (previous Dinky business)
- Sydney Hall/Dinkydome renovation: CVS (chain), Erbert & Gerbert's (chain but was on-site prior to Sydney), Chilly Billy's (local, new), Pro Cuts (medium-sized chain), Baldy's BBQ (local to TC, 3 locations?)

[twincitizen]

No doubt the small area plan they develop will call for nothing taller than 2 or 3 stories on the "4 holy blocks" (which is really like 3.2 blocks when you look at it top down).

[RailBaronYarr]

If they want to place some buildings on the historic preservation list, fine. Varsity? Al's? Loring? But seriously, most buildings are nothing. Not unique whatsoever, with many of them being flat out ugly. Anything west of Mesa on that block can die in a fire. Is the Vescio's building anything special? The unit holding Five Guys and Verizon? It's outrageous. If every building looked like the Dinkydale with another 2-3 stories set back for retail, would anyone notice? (I jest because that's almost exactly what the Opus proposal is).

[FISHMANPET]

Even Al's is built in a literal tool shed. It's an abomination of a building, saved only by the unique business that lives inside of it. I can't say the same about most of the other businesses and buildings in Dinkytown. I'd say Loring Pasta bar is the only other really good building in Dinkytown where the business benefits from the building and vice versa.

[Chauncey87]

This guy! He is fighting to save what isn't even there. The Book House moved.

"Matt Hawbaker has been active in the “Save Dinkytown” movement to block the project; he also works as a manager at The Book House, a business in the path of the project that already has relocated."

Read more: http://finance-commerce.com/2013/07/opu ... z2aC0ATeLp


What is the deal? So if I am reading this right pretty much the whole area this project was going to take up will be void of any business? As much as I wanted this to pass and there might be a chance next Friday. If it doesn't I hope the people who wanted to "save Dinkytown" have to look at empty store fronts and seas of parking for years. Then ask themselves was it worth it? With land costs in the area is it even possible to make $$ with building only 2/3 story buildings?

[stockman]

Just a couple points to add:
-it is ironic that there are already national chains in buildings that are not the opus development.
-what stops national chains from locating in a two story development on this site, presumably what would happen at some point.
-as noted by others, many buildings have very little historical character
-there are already 6 story buildings in the vicinity, even a high rise with many more floors than 6
-ironically, the rendering shows something that is very in line with the neighborhood, a 2-story bldg with a setback for the additional 4 floors. So, if you are on the street you probably don't notice much different between this and the other existing buildings. The building also is designed similar to the "historic nature" of other buildings in the area, unlike the high rise in the background.
-the above reasons are probably why the planing staff gave the full go ahead for this building.
-lastly, it is also ironic that one the small businesses is actually the one that is selling and in favor of the development, House of Hanson. The NIMBYs are so intent on retaining the small businesses of the area that they are willing to screw over the economic stability of one of the most loyal and longstanding businesses there.

[min-chi-cbus]

I believe the argument from the "Save Dinkytownists" is that by letting large developments like this in Dinkytown that it can make it easier for chain stores to enter the market, easier than it would be for them to enter the same market with much smaller stores that are unfit for the typical chain store mold that most all of them use to bulid out their spaces. I see the argument, I really do, but wouldn't it be fairly easy to just ask Opus to omit certain types of businesses from occupying the spaces? It's a private enterprise, right -- they can do what they want, and I'm sure they'd be willing to compromise. OR, have Opus have the 1st floor be much smaller store footprints that cater only to small businesses like Al's or the Hanson House, etc.

[mattaudio]

My guess is Opus would be happy to subdivide the spaces into smaller storefronts if it would get this to go through. My guess is also that Save Dinkytownists are not interested in anything other than surface parking lots.