Dinkytown Hotel - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

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twincitizen
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Dinkytown Hotel - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby twincitizen » August 9th, 2013, 8:26 am

Not much is known yet, but as rumored by the Save Dinkytown group, Doran Companies is looking at a 70-unit development on the north side of 4th Street.

This Finance & Commerce story is paywalled, so we can only guess at this point based on the tags in the article as to which existing buildings and businesses would be displaced by this development. http://finance-commerce.com/2013/08/dor ... dinkytown/

Here's a Google streetview of the two buildings in question: http://goo.gl/maps/HHWbA

70 units is a bit smaller than most recent apartment projects in the area, but it also looks like this will have a relatively small footprint.

The building that currently holds the yogurt shop would be no loss...it's quite ugly. However, the building housing Camdi, Mesa, and the tattoo shop is very attractive and personally I would like to see it preserved as part of the development.
Last edited by twincitizen on August 9th, 2013, 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby mulad » August 9th, 2013, 8:39 am

Replicating my post in another thread as requested:

The article says 1315-1319 4th St SE, which would be the two parcels shown below. Potentially six stories, with the intention to begin construction next year with opening planned for 2015.


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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby Tom H. » August 9th, 2013, 8:54 am

I have a feeling that it's going to be hard to get approvals for a 6-story building in that location. Is that permitted in the current zoning? Seems to me that something closer to 4 stories would be more likely to get neighborhood support.

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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby mulad » August 9th, 2013, 9:01 am

I agree with twincitizen that the Candi/Mesa/tattoo-parlor facade is something that would be nice to retain or emulate. Spending a little time on Street View made me think it'd be nice to find old brick to reuse for the first 2 stories, then have a cornice-like "belt", and have a cleaner, more modern 4 stories above that. Just look across the street to Dinkydale and Loring Pasta Bar for a little inspiration on finer details for the lower floors.

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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby Nathan » August 9th, 2013, 9:08 am

Oh my lord... I can imagine the carnage already.

THERE ARE SOOOO MANY SURFACE LOTS. I really don't think an additional curb cut in that face of buildings would be good, hopefully if they have parking it can go through the current alleys? I also agree with twincitizen on the quality of the Mesa/Camdi building. That is historic character. It just seems like the odds are against this when there are seemingly sooooo many better spots. I don't see this as a lacking gap. I like the idea of the density in the neighborhood, I'm fully behind the opus project, this one just seems like it could go so wrong.

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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby lordmoke » August 9th, 2013, 9:17 am

I'd be cool with an L-shaped building that wraps around Mesa and takes out that "2 story" tan thing, as long as there's no curb cut.

However, I will fight anyone who wants to tear down the old streetcar suburb architecture.

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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby woofner » August 9th, 2013, 9:40 am

fotoapparatic wrote:Oh my lord... I can imagine the carnage already.
Better get that moratorium up quick! Otherwise, goodbye Al's!

The site is C1, but I'm guessing they'll want to rezone to C3A for this to allow the unit density. Any height is allowed in any zoning district with a CUP, so though 4 stories are allowed as of right in a C3A district, they'll probably request a CUP for 6 stories (unless the units are really small). Now that I think about it, maybe he is going for smaller units on this project - wasn't Doran complaining about how he had to supply larger units than he wanted because of the per unit lot size and parking space requirements?

The existing lot on the westerly parcel uses the 5th St parking lot for access. I can't remember but I'd guess the Opus site plan was designed to allow that to continue, so Doran can probably work off that. Maybe even (dare I dream?) close the existing curb cut on the easterly parcel.
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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby Blaisdell Greenway » August 9th, 2013, 9:42 am

lordmoke wrote:I'd be cool with an L-shaped building that wraps around Mesa and takes out that "2 story" tan thing, as long as there's no curb cut.

However, I will fight anyone who wants to tear down the old streetcar suburb architecture.
That seems entirely doable, and would set the tower behind 4th street, giving the area a nice depth. Plus actual historic Dinkytown is saved. Now's the time to have these conversations, especially in light of the Small Area Plan.

Is there a way to combine the forces of UrbanMSP and Save Dinkytown into a workable coalition that promotes ideas like this? How do we get involved in the Small Area Plan?

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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby mulad » August 9th, 2013, 9:56 am

I have to scratch my head at the concept of Dinkytown being a streetcar suburb -- Dinkytown is the urb, not the burb. It's not St. Louis Park or Hopkins (and SLP has been doing a better job of building "tall" than most parts of Minneapolis).

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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby lordmoke » August 9th, 2013, 9:59 am

Perhaps "streetcar commercial" would have been a better term. I was just attempting to describe that type of 1-2 story brick architecture typically centered around old streetcar stops- not Dinkytown itself.

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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby David Greene » August 9th, 2013, 10:12 am

mulad wrote:I have to scratch my head at the concept of Dinkytown being a streetcar suburb -- Dinkytown is the urb, not the burb. It's not St. Louis Park or Hopkins (and SLP has been doing a better job of building "tall" than most parts of Minneapolis).
The label fits. "Streetcar suburbs" are those places that grew as a result of streetcar investment. Linden Hills is the prototypical example. They're in the city but at the time they were pretty sparse, development-wise. I know the U used to be in a rural setting. I don't know exactly when the urban form reached it. But the Dinkytown buildings date from the mid streetcar era.

FWIW, Hopkins existed as a railroad town long before the streetcar got there. It takes its name from the fact that Harley Hopkins donated some of his land to the railroad for ROW on the condition that the depot would say "Hopkins" on it. For a long time the city's official name was West Minneapolis but was popularly referred to as "Hopkins."

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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby RailBaronYarr » August 9th, 2013, 11:05 am

The people that built those 1-2 story nodes didn't give a damn what they tore down to replace it with - who designed it, who lived in it, etc. Why should we, unless the building itself has some super-valuable historic significance to it, other than being one of thousands of buildings just like it across the US? If the facade can be maintained, or the bricks kept and used in a new facade, that would be a great get! Leave the Mesa facade there and build something totally stark/modern where the tan brick building/pedestrian walk-through is for contrast.

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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby mattaudio » August 9th, 2013, 11:16 am

I think I'm pretty much on board with everyone else on here:
- I'd prefer to see the Mesa building stay, at least the facade.
- No curb cut on 4th
- I'd like to see as many business spaces/storefronts on 4th as we have today.

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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby mattaudio » August 9th, 2013, 11:24 am

The site plan for the Opus development shows that it would be simple to extend the 1st level public parking lane to access parking in this project. http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/groups ... 108590.pdf

Anyone ever seen an easement arrangement like this? It's interesting since I'm fairly certain this is what the current land use does... one parking operator manages this amalgamation of lots within the block, which are owned by multiple owners. Regardless of this project, does the Opus project mean that these other portions of the Dinkytown surface lot will be disconnected from the street?

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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby RailBaronYarr » August 9th, 2013, 11:41 am

^ I think the non-Opus surface parking lots are accessed mid-block on 13th, so that wouldn't change. I would imagine any development on these 2 parcels would require a similar alley width to access Al's Breakfast. The southern 12' of the Opus development is open space to guarantee future access to the Kafe 421 building (I believe).

This pair of parcels is roughly 165' deep x 125' wide (including the curb cut/alley off 4th). Shaving off 12' in the back for access gives them ~17,500 sqft of developable land. I'd assume they'd maybe step back after the 2nd floor, meaning leaving anything above that to be ~15,500 sqft. If you assume a 4-story building with residential up, 70 units, that leaves ~692 sqft per unit, including hallways, elevators, trash, stairwells, wall widths, etc. Just a thought exercise to see if taller than 4 stories would be required for 70 units (without knowing # of BR mix...)

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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby min-chi-cbus » August 9th, 2013, 8:51 pm

Isn't this sort of adding insult to injury? I mean, I'm all for this development and had no qualms whatsoever about building the Opus project in Dinkytown. But they JUST won the right to develop that parcel and the NIMBYs are still licking thier wounds from that battle and now Doran comes along and proposes yet another 6 story "tower" in the very same vacinity?

That being said, I LOVE smaller infill like this and would promote this project and a hundred more like it throughout the city!

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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby seanrichardryan » August 10th, 2013, 1:59 am

It is a six story proposal.
"Doran takes time in Dinkytown

By Chris Newmarker
Finance & Commerce
August 9, 2013

Developer Kelly Doran has a half acre in the heart of Minneapolis’ Dinkytown under contract for a potential six-story, 70-unit apartment project geared toward students, he confirmed Thursday.
But after a contentious rezoning process involving a six-story, 140-unit Opus Development Co. apartment complex planned for the other side of the block, Doran is taking more time gathering input from the locals when it comes to the 1315-1319 Fourth St. SE parcels
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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby Tom H. » August 10th, 2013, 1:35 pm

min-chi-cbus wrote:Isn't this sort of adding insult to injury? I mean, I'm all for this development and had no qualms whatsoever about building the Opus project in Dinkytown. But they JUST won the right to develop that parcel and the NIMBYs are still licking thier wounds from that battle and now Doran comes along and proposes yet another 6 story "tower" in the very same vacinity?
I don't agree with this sentiment, but I do agree that it will be powerful (and potentially fatal) as this project moves forward.

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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby min-chi-cbus » August 11th, 2013, 10:09 pm

What is powerful/fatal?

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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby Nick » August 11th, 2013, 10:24 pm

What is our purpose in the universe?


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