Target Field Station (the Hotel) & Target Field Station (the Station)

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
Suburban Outcast
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Re: The Interchange

Postby Suburban Outcast » September 12th, 2013, 3:20 am

I started laughing when I saw that on the front page of the Strib today while loading newspapers. The Union Depot is closer to Grand Central, and even that is a very pale comparison. They could have spent the money towards a transit tunnel under Nicollet Mall, or at least towards a short at-grade spur that serves more of the North Loop ending at Washington Ave via 6th or 7th Ave (which could be extended to the Northside later on).

This station just seems too out-of-place to consider it a major transfer point, especially since Target Field Station is closer the the 5th St Ramp Bus Station, which makes it the actual "Interchange" for both commuters and people heading to the stadium.

mullen
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Re: The Interchange

Postby mullen » September 12th, 2013, 6:51 am

yea, i love the project and it will do for downtown and north loop but why does our local media feel the need to compare this to grand central station in nyc. it's an oversized light rail station basically with a plaza. once we have more lines coming into the station and possibly high speed rail. but at this point HSR seems like an pipe dream really. amtrak won't even stop here.

i feel it's close enough to the center of dt though. if you have ever been to other cities with true train stations this site is actually pretty close to the center of our downtown. no, it's not directly opposite the IDS center but it's certainly not outside the city center.

Suburban Outcast
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Re: The Interchange

Postby Suburban Outcast » September 12th, 2013, 7:35 am

It's close enough to downtown, but since Target Field Station is slightly closer I think most would just end up using that station. I can see the appeal for North Loop riders and possibly Southwest and Bottineau riders, but given the short spacing between the Interchange and TF stations, it just seems pointless.

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Re: The Interchange

Postby twincitizen » September 12th, 2013, 7:46 am

Did we ever figure out definitively if trains would stop at both platforms? I take it from that Strib story that "The Interchange" is going to be officially named "Target Field Station" and frankly, I suspected this all along. Two platforms, one station. Perhaps one will be used for Blue, the other for Green. Or one will be game-day only. Trains are not going to stop at both platforms just for the hell of it.

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Re: The Interchange

Postby Silophant » September 12th, 2013, 7:56 am

Will that be an option? I was under the impression that the current Target Field platform would only be used before and after games for the extra capacity, and otherwise, the new Interchange platform would be the Target Field Station. It'd be super annoying to have two stops placed about 50 feet apart.

(Or, on preview, what twincitizen said.)

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Re: The Interchange

Postby twincitizen » September 12th, 2013, 8:12 am

I just had to share this comment from the Strib article:

I agree that the headline is a groaner: If we love NY so much, just call our Grand Central hub the "Minni-Apple Core"

ZING!

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Re: The Interchange

Postby talindsay » September 12th, 2013, 9:01 am

The current TF Station platforms and the new Interchange TF Station platforms are both the same station. I hope they're planning to use one set for Green Line and one for Blue Line all the time, since it would make for less confusion on game days, but it's pretty clear that their intention is to do so on game days at least.

And yes, the claim of this being a "Grand Central Station" is bizarre and ignores context in a major way. Perspective is sometimes lacking here...

pfreyre
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Re: The Interchange

Postby pfreyre » September 12th, 2013, 9:48 am

...And to be a transit nerd grammar nazi - technically, its called "Grand Central Terminal"

MNdible
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Re: The Interchange

Postby MNdible » September 12th, 2013, 10:15 am

Silophant wrote:I was under the impression that the current Target Field platform would only be used before and after games for the extra capacity, and otherwise, the new Interchange platform would be the Target Field Station.
I have no insider knowledge, but I've always felt that this option made the most sense. The new station will definitely be more plugged into the North Loop.

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Re: The Interchange

Postby twincitizen » September 12th, 2013, 2:32 pm

The beauty of having changeable message LED signs and loudspeakers at the platforms is that they can do either of the options discussed in this thread as needed.

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Re: The Interchange

Postby MSPtoMKE » September 12th, 2013, 7:59 pm

talindsay wrote:I hope they're planning to use one set for Green Line and one for Blue Line all the time, since it would make for less confusion on game days, but it's pretty clear that their intention is to do so on game days at least.
I actually specifically hope the don't do this. It is more convenient if the trains stop at the same platform, except during events. That way, there is a combined headway of 5 minutes if your destination is in downtown, no guessing which platform will have a train departing next.
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Re: The Interchange

Postby mattaudio » September 12th, 2013, 8:22 pm

Exactly. And eventually this will be the first interchange station for Bottineau and Southwest, meaning it will be critical that people can do easy transfers without going further into DT.

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Re: The Interchange

Postby talindsay » September 12th, 2013, 9:30 pm

MSPtoMKE wrote:
talindsay wrote:I hope they're planning to use one set for Green Line and one for Blue Line all the time, since it would make for less confusion on game days, but it's pretty clear that their intention is to do so on game days at least.
I actually specifically hope the don't do this. It is more convenient if the trains stop at the same platform, except during events. That way, there is a combined headway of 5 minutes if your destination is in downtown, no guessing which platform will have a train departing next.
Good point, I was concerned about confusion and continue to think that will be an issue but since any downtown rider wants the next available train the benefit of speed on non game days probably offsets the confusion. Bear in mind however that if we ever get real time arrival signs it would be easy enough for somebody to see which platform will get the next train. I think the question would hinge on whether more riders boarding at this station during non game times have a destination within downtown Minneapolis or beyond it - since separating the platforms benefits those who care which train they board while keeping them together helps those who don't.

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Re: The Interchange

Postby David Greene » September 12th, 2013, 10:42 pm

twincitizen wrote:Did we ever figure out definitively if trains would stop at both platforms? I take it from that Strib story that "The Interchange" is going to be officially named "Target Field Station" and frankly, I suspected this all along. Two platforms, one station. Perhaps one will be used for Blue, the other for Green. Or one will be game-day only. Trains are not going to stop at both platforms just for the hell of it.
I heard a rumor about this way back before the Interchange was even an idea. Back when Central was still on the drawing board I had someone tell me they planned for a separate platform at Target Field for Central, with Hiawatha using the existing platform. This was to handle the expected game-day load more efficiently. I assume that plan got integrated into the Interhcnage development.

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Re: The Interchange

Postby at40man » September 13th, 2013, 8:12 am

mullen wrote:yea, i love the project and it will do for downtown and north loop but why does our local media feel the need to compare this to grand central station in nyc.
It isn't the media that is promoting it this way - they are simply parroting what some of the project's biggest cheerleaders are saying.

And anyone who comes to the station expecting to see Grand Central Terminal in Minneapolis will be disappointed, so they better just head over to St Paul. IMHO, Union Depot is the most logical place for HSR anyway - it is on a main line, and has the capacity and space to deal with HSR, not to mention impressive architecture.

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Re: The Interchange

Postby Viktor Vaughn » September 13th, 2013, 8:42 am

Nobody made the Star Tribune compare the Interchange to Grand Central in their headline.

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Re: The Interchange

Postby ztr421 » September 13th, 2013, 9:29 am

Viktor Vaughn wrote:Nobody made the Star Tribune compare the Interchange to Grand Central in their headline.
But they weren't comparing it Grand Central in the headline - they were quoting Twins President Dave St. Peter - he made the comparison.

Now, I do think they should have used quotation marks there and in the text of the article, because it does look like it's the Star Tribune actually making that [ridiculous] comparison.

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Re: The Interchange

Postby MNdible » September 13th, 2013, 9:31 am

Why is Grand Central important? Yes, it's a beautiful building. But really, it's a station where a lot of trains come together close to where the most people want to go. Accepting that there's a huge scale difference between MSP and NYC, it's very clear to me that the Interchange is much closer to that reality than SPUD will ever be.

What if they built Grand Central in Hoboken and made everybody transfer to a PATH train to get over to Manhattan?

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Re: The Interchange

Postby FISHMANPET » September 13th, 2013, 9:38 am

Grand Central is important because it's an iconic train station and lots of people are going to have some idea what it is even if they've never been there. Now maybe for people that have never been there all Grand Central means to them is train station where some trains come, which isn't something we've had here for a while anyway.

For someone that knows the history or has seen pictures or has been there, it's an incredibly overwrought comparison.

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Re: The Interchange

Postby Anondson » September 13th, 2013, 11:29 am

"Grand Central" is pretty much a common euphemism for "busy place, or hub, where people gather and pass through".

There are times when euphemisms miss the mark wildly to people, in this case I see the point. To me though, I've heard anti-height activists claim "This is our Central Park. So keep tall towers away!" I heard that in reference to development along the Mississippi River made by Mill City Museum people and said by Loring Park residents of Loring Park.

Now to me the words "Central Park" pretty well is identified as tall towers ringing green space. But to these people it meant "precious unspoiled green space in the urban core", to which towers were imminent harm.


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