Dinkytown Hotel - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Northeast, Near North, Camden, Old St. Anthony, University and surrounding neighborhoods
mattaudio
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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby mattaudio » January 25th, 2014, 3:21 pm

The next natural step in intensification in such a node would be to have some services/offices and possibly even specialty retail moving to the second floors of buildings. Heck even the urban-awful HoH had retail underneath. Podium had a lower level. Not sure if any others do. But maybe the 2015/16/17 developments in Dinkytown will truly be "mixed use" by floor and not just housing/hotel over retail.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby RailBaronYarr » January 30th, 2014, 8:56 am

Somehow missed this: http://tcdailyplanet.net/news/2014/01/2 ... eservation Lots of good quotes from CMs and info in there.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby Silophant » February 6th, 2014, 9:45 pm

Doran's appealing this to the Z&P next Thursday, Feb. 13th.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby TheUrbanGopher » February 8th, 2014, 2:48 pm


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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby twincitizen » February 11th, 2014, 10:48 am

Public Hearing for demolition appeal is Thursday morning: http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/meeting ... S1P-120286

Note: this is only the appeal to demolish the buildings. Doran has not actually submitted development plans to the city yet. That will be a completely separate discussion and public hearing.

Folks, I know not everyone is as passionate about this development (or Doran in general) as we were for the Opus project last summer. However, I want to point out that denying the demolition permit for 1319 4th St SE (Mesa/Camdi building) sets a dangerous precedent for development. While it's an attractive building and houses two cherished small businesses, there is nothing specifically historic or significant about this 1-story brick building itself. There are hundreds of very similar buildings across the City, pretty much all of them along transit corridors targeted for denser development. Preserving this building on historic grounds could set a very dangerous precedent going forward.

Your councilmembers are under extraordinary pressure on this issue. Again, this is not about Doran's development (or curb cuts or setbacks or transformer boxes). This is about an extremely dangerous precedent of declaring a non-historic building historic. The Planning Commission and City Council can deal with the aforementioned issues with Doran's proposed development at the appropriate time.

If you can't make the meeting on Thursday, I urge you to contact Jacob Frey (ward 3 rep), and members of the Zoning & Planning Committee:

Lisa Bender (Chair), Andrew Johnson (Vice Chair), Barbara Johnson, Lisa Goodman, Kevin Reich, Abdi Warsame.

You should absolutely contact Jacob Frey and Lisa Bender, but copying the rest of the committee can't hurt either.
jacob.frey@minneapolismn.gov
lisa.bender@minneapolismn.gov

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby David Greene » February 11th, 2014, 11:23 am

RailBaronYarr wrote:Somehow missed this: http://tcdailyplanet.net/news/2014/01/2 ... eservation Lots of good quotes from CMs and info in there.
This is quite a good article. I appreciate the picture of the house, as I was not familiar with it.

It seems a damn shame to tear down that house, not only because of its age but its design. How many houses like that do we have in the city? Probably someone tore off a front porch at some time but that's easy enough to restore. The rear addition is ugly but again that can be fixed.

We certainly have a lot of Four Square houses in the city but I don't recall seeing one quite like this - one and a half stories, steeply-pitched front gable with paired corbels and the original windows, the latter being quite rare for a house even 40 years newer. I wonder if the moldings are original - that would be extremely rare as well. I'd love to see interior shots. If the interior is intact we should absolutely treasure this house.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby Viktor Vaughn » February 11th, 2014, 11:37 am

I don't know TC, but I'd rather err on the side of preserving buildings like this. I think it's possible to support development and leave in place as many prewar buildings as possible. I'm sure this fails to meet preservation criteria, but maybe that is more an indictment of the preservation process than the building itself?

I'm sure I'm speaking out of school here, but this one just doesn't sit right with me. Maybe a focus on preservation combined with advocacy for density would push developers to target surface lots and suburban-style-postwar-buildings - and leave sites with this sort of history and great urbanism alone.

I'm not going to advocate one way or another, I'm just registering my apprehension.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby MplsSteve » February 11th, 2014, 1:00 pm

]
David Greene wrote:It seems a damn shame to tear down that house, not only because of its age but its design. How many houses like that do we have in the city?
twincitizen wrote: While it's an attractive building and houses two cherished small businesses, there is nothing specifically historic or significant about this 1-story brick building itself.
These statements illustrate what I find so perplexing about the whole Dinkytown controversy. The real losses in the area have been the residential demolitions. We've lost some fine examples of very early residential architecture - houses that anywhere else in the city would have attracted a lot of attention. Unfortunately almost all of the attention has been focused on the commercial buildings. Quite frankly, with the acception of a handful of structures - Varsity Theater, Dinkydome, etc. there really are very few outstanding commercial buildings in Dinkytown from an architectural or historical perspective.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby David Greene » February 11th, 2014, 1:29 pm

I sent this note to CMs Frey and Bender.

Hello CMs Frey and Bender,

I'm sure you're inundated with messages about the Doran Dinkytown hotel
proposal. I live in the Wedge so what I have to say is from a city-wide
perspective and I hope brings something a bit new to the conversation.

Generally, I'm ambivalent about the development itself. Maybe a hotel
would be good for Dinkytown, maybe not. I'm also ambivalent about
demolition of the two commercial buildings. I don't think they're in
any way historically significant, though I admit I'd rather see
development of other parking lots/empty spaces first before we go tear
down a lot of stuff. That's more a general statement than a critique of
this particular project.

My attention is on the house on 13th Ave. SE. There's a good picture of
it here:

http://tcdailyplanet.net/news/2014/01/2 ... eservation

Apparently it is 127 years old, which in itself is not noteworthy from a
preservation perspective. However, I believe the design is unique in
the city and we're certainly lost most of our housing from that area.
While we have a lot of Four Square houses in the city, none look quite
like this one with its wide eaves, steeply pitched front gable, paired
corbels and original windows. The latter in particular are quite rare
even for a house 40 years newer than this one.

I think the property deserves some investigation. I'd like to know if
the exterior moldings are original. If so, that's a *very* rare find in
our housing stock. If the interior trim and detailing is mostly intact
I think this house is absolutely worth saving. Perhaps Doran can move
it somewhere if they can't work around it.

As an owner of a 100+ year-old house, I know how rare it is to find
something intact and how difficult it is to restore things that have
been lost. I'm not saying we definitely should save this house but we
should absolutely do some research and find out what's there before we
tear it down.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby Silophant » February 11th, 2014, 10:20 pm

I wonder what would happen if the Z&P, and then the full council approved the demo of the two commercial buildings, but not the house. Would Doran find a way to build and operate his hotel without a small side parking lot, or would he just pack up his ball and go home?

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby twincitizen » February 11th, 2014, 11:57 pm

I don't find that scenario likely. From what I understand, this whole controversy is almost entirely about 1319 4th St (Mesa/Camdi). As far as the bulk of public outcry is concerned, the other two buildings don't matter (cinderblock bank drive-thru and the old house on 13th).

Most people (including probably all current students) don't actually care about the buildings themselves, they care about the small businesses that inhabit them. In this case, the most attractive/"historic" building of the three also houses the businesses that people care about.

Kelly Doran could have easily done himself a huge favor by guaranteeing relocation of Mesa and Camdi (and the tattoo shop for bonus points). But again, the scary thing here is the precedent this could set citywide for preserving old 1-story commercial buildings (again, which are frequently on transit corridors where we have stated city policy to increase density).

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby Wedgeguy » February 12th, 2014, 12:31 pm

Twinctizen, I agree very much that we have to look at the long range effects of this. We are now trying to increase the population of the city. We need to look at density and where it makes the most sense.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby Silophant » February 12th, 2014, 11:18 pm

twincitizen wrote:I don't find that scenario likely. From what I understand, this whole controversy is almost entirely about 1319 4th St (Mesa/Camdi).
Oh, I don't either, but I realized after I sent my notes off to the CMs last night that I had just written about 1319 and 1315, and had completely forgotten about the house. So I was just spitballing on that scenario.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby TheUrbanGopher » February 13th, 2014, 8:17 am

Who is planning on going to the Z&P meeting this morning? I was planning on it but will likely no longer be able to go unfortunately.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby twincitizen » February 13th, 2014, 10:02 am

Tough to take off work for a 9:30 Z&P Committee meeting. I'd really have to be fired up about something to do that.

I know I've been called an ageist before, but does anyone have an over/under on the average age of non-current-students speaking on the demolition appeals today?

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby FISHMANPET » February 13th, 2014, 10:57 am

Intrepid Daily sports reporter Nicolas Hallett is once again at this meeting, and one again not live tweeting very much: https://twitter.com/nicolashallett

So far the room is packed, but that was nearly an hour and a half ago.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby FISHMANPET » February 13th, 2014, 11:00 am

And it sounds like they're finally onto this one.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby FISHMANPET » February 13th, 2014, 11:33 am

Oh hey this is being broadcast:
http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/tv/79

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby twincitizen » February 13th, 2014, 11:37 am

LOL, CM Bender misspoke and said "deny the appeal" before correcting herself.

So far CMs Bender and A. Johnson strongly in favor of granting appeal to allow demolition. I feel like Andrew Johnson just read my email verbatim :)

Barb Johnson is offering a substitute motion to allow demo of 1315 4th and the house on 13th Av, but deny demolition of 1319 4th St. She's elaborating on that now. The video sucks balls on my computer at work, but audio is coming through ok.

Lisa Goodman is now suggesting that each property be voted on separately and that Barb and Lisa Bender now withdraw their motions.

Barb is moving to deny appeal for 1319 4th, vote coming shortly.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby FISHMANPET » February 13th, 2014, 11:41 am

Haha, Bender just dropped the hammer. How can I say this is historic but then go back to my Ward and tell them that all the 1 story brick buildings along Nicolet when we plan for streetcar growth.


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