Theater Garage Marquee Apartments - (Franklin & Lyndale)

[aeisenberg]

Meeting started. Not enough packets. Everyone is super Minnesotan and offering to share.

[FISHMANPET]

Livetweeting/liveblogging/liveposting always welcome and appreciated.

[aeisenberg]

We've got our first "Why would we want to have more people in our neighborhood!?"-nimby. Everybody drinks. So far comments are almost all anti-development. Lots of other predictable traffic and height-related comments.

But some good points so far that should be addressed, such as the proximity to the properties behind the development, and the rooftop space possibly looking onto those yards.

[RailBaronYarr]

I think it's important to note that the existing buildings on the site come within the same distance the developer is proposing. Also, buildings in the area shade other buildings (the Hennepin Cty imagery was taken in the summer and shows nearly all the south-facing units on 2003 Aldrich shaded by 2007 Aldrich). Also also, the house at 2011 Aldrich already has scores of people looking over its back yard?

[aeisenberg]

"There's no hill in the rendering looking west, I think it's deceptive, and now I don't trust you."

[aeisenberg]

This is getting ugly in a hurry. Lots of comments suggesting this is being done in a dishonest, deceptive way.

[aeisenberg]

"Is this a Soviet development!?!" was just yelled at the developers.

[aeisenberg]

Bender starts talking and a woman in attendance says "She's in favor of it, she doesn't care!" before Lisa finishes her first sentence. Classy.

[TheUrbanGopher]

I cant believe the hatred toward this project. Wait... actually, I can. But still sad.

[Nathan]

I'm literally seething after that meeting. the lady next to me kept elbowing me when I would agree to the buildings strong points. physically elbowing me.

[MNdible]

Maybe she was just flirting with you?

[Wedgeguy]

All of you, except those in attendance, missed a great meeting of how not to act at a meeting. Vicious were the accusations, as close as you can come to name calling, You could have had a lynch mob with the way some of these people acted. You would think that some of them have heard we are trying to increase the number of people in the city, increase the number of business, and increase our tax base. Some still think that the world revolves around cars, even when pointing out it is on a transit priority corridor, that a bike corridor is 2 blocks away. You can tell who voted for Meg Tuthill in the last election!!

To the opponents credit the developer did not have a finished west side elevation, which they will have to work very hard on for the next meeting as this one was a big sticking issues with many at this point. The people speaking for were also heard so, that a positive thing. The city wants to increase density, tax base, jobs. So something will happen on this corner. The architect kinda got a failing grade for his exterior design. While they talked about making the one build appear to be 3, the choices of materials and how they were put up fell pretty flat across a majority of the crowd.

The building is design for bicyclist with private lockers for their bikes, big plus for some of you out there. I was surprise on how many rejected the Franklin avenue entrance/exit. I would have thought that reducing the amount of traffic turning on or onto Lyndale would have been a plus. I was wrong there, but I still think it is a good idea. I know one old lady that does not like me!! LOL Will be interest to see what the next meeting turns into, now that the anti all think that Lisa Bender is against them.

[David Greene]

Did you all attend a different meeting than I did? I thought the meeting went very well. Yes, there were some out-of-line comments but Will Bornstein did a fantastic job chairing. What could have been a meeting full of shouting and back-and-forth accusations was quite productive. Nobody "yelled" and people for the most part were very respectful when others were talking.

Some initial takeaways I had:

I heard a clear message from almost everyone in the room that they like the idea of development on this corner. Disagreements are over how it's done. This is very different from the 24th and Colfax situation.

Developers really need to take classes in community organizing. You just spent 45 minutes listening to questions and concerns people have (most of which were totally legit) and in your response you lead with, "we need to grow tax base, blah, blah, blah?" The folks attending are by definintion civically engaged. They've heard the political slogans, Mineeapolis 500k and so on. Some reject the notion. Most don't care at all. Either way, your first comment doesn't engage people's self-interest *at all.* You've lost most of the room right there.

I don't think anyone was deliberately being deceptive but when you're in a room with a lot of skeptics, don't go stating that Whittier loved the project. Neighborhoods talk to each other. Predictably, people went right to the source and asked the Whittier board member what really happened. As expected, she said some were in favor and others had questions and concerns. Bam, you just reinforced people's notion that you're lying to them.

Maybe someone here can answer this question I had because the developer's answer on underground parking was totally unsatisfactory. I get that the soil is bad and you can't just build a garage on a concrete slab. You can't build the building on a slab either. If you're putting footings to the bedrock, why isn't it possible to build the underground parking on top of that?

[Wedgeguy]

David Greene

To answer your last question the answer is probably yes, But you would not like the engineering challenges and the $$$$. I'm afraid that it would be very expensive. You think that 1800 Lake has water issues. Where would you pump out all of the water that will naturally run down into this bowl of an old lake bed. I'd say they will be lucky as to not have water issues in the basement as it is. My opinion.

[David Greene]

All of you, except those in attendance, missed a great meeting of how not to act at a meeting. Vicious were the accusations, as close as you can come to name calling, You could have had a lynch mob with the way some of these people acted.

Wow, this is just...not accurate. You're *way* overexaggerating. To compare the meeting to a lynch mob is offensive.

I intend the following as helpful feedback in the most positive sense. I think your comments in the meeting skated right up to the line, maybe even crossed it in a few places. It was more the delivery than what you actually said. You came off as just a little condescending and dismissive of people. It's not surprising to me that you got a negaive reaction.

[David Greene]

David Greene

To answer your last question the answer is probably yes, But you would not like the engineering challenges and the $$$$. I'm afraid that it would be very expensive. You think that 1800 Lake has water issues. Where would you pump out all of the water that will naturally run down into this bowl of an old lake bed. I'd say they will be lucky as to not have water issues in the basement as it is. My opinion.

I appreciate this answer and wish the developer had been forthcoming and said it. Because he left a big gaping hole of a question in some peoples' minds. It's better to be upfront and direct than evasive and appearing to paper over the issue.

[David Greene]

Some still think that the world revolves around cars

In the U.S. the world *does* revolve around cars. People were absolutely correct to point that out. We can't just wish away cars and traffic. I don't know whether this project will make traffic worse, better or be neutral but it's fair to ask the questions and get some studies done. The truth is that Lyndale *is* a nightmare during rush hour and on weekends. The Wedge lot has a lot to do with that so I completely understand people being concerned about another larger parking facility and what it will do to traffic. It's also true that people use Franklin as a reliever for the Hennepin/94 ramp and that it backs up pretty severely at times. Personally I don't really care about traffic but I certainly understand why others are concerned.

[Wedgeguy]

I learn of the lake bed from talking with others after the meeting. I'd have thought that people who live in the area for so long would have know that. Yes the developer needs to do much better at his excursion of delivery. I don't know why the architect to not follow that up. That would be under his expertise's. They again dropped the ball. They dropped it way too many times. Not sure if it was lack of preparation for hard questions, or just not caring to.

From where I was sitting, I heard enough to know that was barely a civil crowd. There were no fist fights, but their were some people that really needed a chill pill. I guess if I had know I could rattle off 8 to 10 things I'd have said a few more for the pro side of things. This being my first meeting I was not at all ready, even after your earlier warning, that people would have behaved as they did.

[David Greene]

We've got our first "Why would we want to have more people in our neighborhood!?"-nimby.

I don't know that I'd call that NIMBY but I get your drift. Some people just don't buy into the Minneapolis 500k thing. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just a different opinion.

As for everybody drinking, I'm not sure what you meant by that but I don't think the room was anywhere close to of one mind in opposing growing population. BTW, I kicked myself after making my comment that I forgot to mention that I love the development and added population along the Greenway. Oh well.

But some good points so far that should be addressed, such as the proximity to the properties behind the development, and the rooftop space possibly looking onto those yards.

Indeed. Also the noise issue. It's a real concern and I don't know that there's a good way to mitigate it. I'm not saying nix the public "park" but the noise issue at least has to be addressed, even if the answer is, "Sorry, we can't do much about it." The while idea of the rooftop park is just strange to me. I think I might prefer an enclosed space with some balconies. It would be more suitable for communiy meetings and would help reduce the noise. Yep, that would also increase height which would get pushback. As usual, no easy answers.

I also forgot to ask the question about what protection owners have over damage to their buildings during construction. I tried to ask it later but Will cut off the meeting before I had the chance. I did go and ask the developers about it and got the expected answer: litigation. That's really not a very pleasing answer because most people can't afford high-powered lawyers to take on developers when damage happens. To their credit, the developers did explain the different kinds of pile driving techniques, soil evaluation and vibration measurement. They even admitted that while there are engineering standards, "those numbers may not be right." Kudos to them for admitting it.

[David Greene]

Yes the developer needs to do much better at his excursion of delivery. I don't know why the architect to not follow that up. That would be under his expertise's. They again dropped the ball. They dropped it way too many times. Not sure if it was lack of preparation for hard questions, or just not caring to.

Totally agree. "Dropping the ball" is a good metaphor. I don't think it's that he didn't care. Every meeting like this I've ever been to has developers making wince-inducing statements that have me immediately think, "well, they just screwed their message." I think they are honeslty completely lost when interacting with the public.

From where I was sitting, I heard enough to know that was barely a civil crowd. There were no fist fights, but their were some people that really needed a chill pill. I guess if I had know I could rattle off 8 to 10 things I'd have said a few more for the pro side of things. This being my first meeting I was not at all ready, even after your earlier warning, that people would have behaved as they did.

Yep, I get the first meeting thing. I wasn't on my best behavior at the 24th and Colfax meeting for much the same reason - I was taken off-guard by the vitriol (which was many times worse than in tonight's meeting). Good learning experiences for sure.