Northeast and Southeast Minneapolis - General Topics

Northeast, Near North, Camden, Old St. Anthony, University and surrounding neighborhoods
David Greene
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Re: Northeast - General Topics

Postby David Greene » March 11th, 2014, 2:52 pm

maxbaby wrote:New hope starting for Lowry Ave in NE?
http://www.journalmpls.com/news-feed/wo ... wry-ave-ne
What they did to Lowry Ave. N. is criminal from a livable cities perspective.

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Re: Northeast - General Topics

Postby Wedgeguy » March 11th, 2014, 3:24 pm

Curious, what did they do to Lowry?

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Northeast - General Topics

Postby FISHMANPET » March 11th, 2014, 3:27 pm

The article describes it all.

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mister.shoes
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Re: Northeast - General Topics

Postby mister.shoes » March 11th, 2014, 4:00 pm

One example:
The problem with being an introvert online is that no one knows you're just hanging out and listening.

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Re: Northeast - General Topics

Postby Tcmetro » March 11th, 2014, 4:15 pm

Lowry/Lyndale is atrocious. Hennepin County managed to make a struggling part of the city even worse.

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Re: Northeast - General Topics

Postby min-chi-cbus » March 11th, 2014, 6:50 pm

what did they do wrong? It looks like an ideal spot for redevelopment, and I remember seeing a master plan for the area that really beefed up these north side arterials like Lowry.

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Re: Northeast - General Topics

Postby David Greene » March 11th, 2014, 9:00 pm

min-chi-cbus wrote:what did they do wrong? It looks like an ideal spot for redevelopment, and I remember seeing a master plan for the area that really beefed up these north side arterials like Lowry.

They made Lowry Ave. N. into a stroad. Then they tapered the curbs back, making it even less pedestrian friendly. They didn't learn from the 1960's and razed everything in sight. Now there is just a bunch of empty land and an unfriendly street guaranteeing more difficult redevelopment.

EDIT: It's galling that people who worked on Lowry in the past regret widening it and that the county didn't learn from that experience either.

Now the poorest part of the city got a crappy road and so much was spent destroying the corridor that, perversely, not enough was left over to ruin Northeast and now Northeast is going to get a much better design. Northeast *should* get a better design but once again the Northside got crapped on while learning that lesson.

A total fail by the county all around.

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Re: Northeast - General Topics

Postby Tcmetro » March 19th, 2014, 8:29 am

I don't think this was mentioned, but at 26th and Central a new Walgreen's will be built. This was at the January meeting of the Planning Commission.

http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/www/gro ... 118987.pdf

Walgreen's already has a store one block away. Why build a new one?

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Re: Northeast - General Topics

Postby mattaudio » March 19th, 2014, 8:53 am


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Re: Northeast - General Topics

Postby RailBaronYarr » March 20th, 2014, 8:29 pm

*Long rube post alert*

So I've spent a bit of time in the St Anthony area recently, and beyond the surface parking, it's painfully clear to me that the streets are a major hindrance to the area feeling really welcoming. Particularly 1st Ave, Hennepin, and Central (with University being somewhat a detractor but not terrible). Given all the development going on (or just restarted) and the likelihood of a streetcar coming through, I wanted to talk real quick about how they could be improved..

For reference, here's the traffic counts I'll be referencing: http://minneapolis.ms2soft.com/tcds/tse ... polis&mod= I'm going off the assumption that a 2-way street with up to 20k AADT can be 4-3'd without major issues, and therefore one ways with 10-15k AADT could be handled with 2 lanes (since there are no conflicts when turning)

1st Ave: Current situation (between 4th & 5th Streets) - ~10k AADT http://goo.gl/maps/9Y2ze (rightmost lane alternates between on-street parking and right-turn lane). I'll be nice and just say the lanes are built to freeway spec, coupled with the lack of pretty much any sidewalk greening makes this a hot, sunny, dangerous area for those on bikes and foot. 3 lanes seems excessive given current/future land uses and a one-way AADT that has only crossed 10k 2 times in the 8 times it's been measured since 1999. Here's what I propose (assuming the streetcar runs SW on 1st in the future - meantime buses can use the dedicated space to build ridership). Area tradeoff is obviously the loss of one side of on-street parking. I believe bike parking/Nice Ride + enhanced mobility via streetcar makes both sides unnecessary in this district. (also, further down on the bridge)

Hennepin Ave: Current Situation(between University & 4th Street) - ~13-14k AADT (numbers vary between river and Central) http://goo.gl/maps/YsfyD Hennepin is far better than First. Both the right and left side parking alternated with wider sidewalks/trees/bike parking. Here's what I propose. Re-do the eastish curbside when rolling the streetcar through, removing parking. Can use this opportunity to re-do the west side to change current boulevard/parking to a raised cycle track, but the ultimate edge of the moving roadway remains the same, with parking taking up the westernmost lane. (or it can just wait until the sidewalk needs work, I'm not aware the last time Hennepin was reconstructed).

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Re: Northeast - General Topics

Postby RailBaronYarr » March 20th, 2014, 8:32 pm

(had to split to 2 posts?..)

Central Ave: Current Situation (between 4th & 5th Streets) - ~14.5k 2-way AADT (numbers vary between river and further north, but all below 20k AADT) http://goo.gl/maps/PEFV1 Central is definitely the least bad of the 3, and looks to have been recently resurfaced. But the sidewalk is definitely cramped in many spots. I'd love to leave room for a bus lane for a future Central Ave "E Line" (assuming Chicago-Fremont and Lake St come first), but I think this is how the street would best serve the area: http://streetmix.net/alexcecchini/47/ce ... roposed-nb Parking only on one side, not shown in lieu of bulb-out transit stop here. Given that north of the commercial area, industrial parcels, rails, and 35W constrain routes southward, I believe Central is a major enough bike artery to deserve a cycle track. Again, a 4-3 conversion on 14k/day 2-way flow should be doable, especially if streetcar, aBRT, and quality bike infrastructure are present.

Ok, lengthy post(s..). I had more free time than I thought I would tonight. Thoughts?

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Re: Northeast - General Topics

Postby MNdible » March 20th, 2014, 10:41 pm

A couple of quick reactions. The past three winters in a row have all had significant problems with snow, so we can't say anymore that it was just one bad winter. The city needs to realize when it's performing the "street diets" that are all the rage with the kids these days that you can skinny up the parking lane, or you can skinny up the driving lane, but when you do both, you're going to have problems during the winter. There are a lot of streets around town that have effectively lost entire lanes. In some cases, there's been a bike lane (that nobody has been using because it's winter), and so people shift over and use that space, but this has the effect of making the lane markers useless, confusing, and potentially dangerous. It's been a bad scene, and we can't keep planning streets without realizing that three months out of the year we have a lot of snow to deal with.

Otherwise, I think what you're proposing for Hennepin and 1st is probably workable.

What you're proposing for Central, on the other hand, strikes me as a pipe dream. You say that you've spent time in this area, so clearly you've seen that Central has some very asymmetrical traffic patterns. It's taking significant commuter traffic in and out of downtown, and as a result, one direction or the other is frequently over capacity.

The other thing that makes me scratch my head (and I've griped about this before, so I apologize) is when people say, "We're adding a ton of housing and other uses to an area, so clearly that means we can reduce the auto infrastructure that serves the area." Yes, you're increasing the potential walkability of the area, but you're also increasing the number of people who need/want to get in and out of that area. I'm not saying we need to be adding lanes, but we're adding demand to an area like this much faster than some macro trend-line of miles driven may be going down.

Anyway, thanks for putting this on the table.

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Re: Northeast - General Topics

Postby mulad » March 21st, 2014, 6:00 am

I think in dense areas like this with significant amounts of economic activity, we can afford to do full snow removal rather than just plowing. It's unreasonable to do that through the whole city, but I think it's a good idea to try it in targeted areas.

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Re: Northeast - General Topics

Postby RailBaronYarr » March 21st, 2014, 6:25 am

Not disputing what you're saying MNdible. But what major arterial in Minneapolis doesn't carry significantly asymmetrical traffic patterns (outside maybe University Ave.. maybe a couple others?). I'd be interested in looking into some of the 4-3 conversions on heavily commuter patterned streets and what the result was. I understand your logic on the desire to handle more traffic even as local residents are brought in (indeed, it's inevitable that a bunch of them may be reverse commuters taking up street capacity, not to mention likely new visitors to the area).

At the same time, there's a sort of chicken/egg thing for me that using the fear of street gridlock could keep any real efforts to make areas more pleasant for biking and walking. The idea isn't to purposely make driving difficult, but to come out and honestly say "every major street/arterial needs to use space more efficiently and enhance adjacent property value when possible." The idea is that sometime in 10-30 years, 70-80% of the people who live there work nearby or downtown, not 40% like today. Maybe it is just a pipe dream, I dunno.

Either way, thanks for the thoughtful comments. I'll probably turn this into a briefer streets.mn post, so it's good to get a few thoughts out now.

streets.mn

Northeast’s Public Realm Needs a Makeover

Postby streets.mn » March 21st, 2014, 8:02 pm

Northeast’s Public Realm Needs a Makeover https://streets.mn/2014/03/21/northeasts ... -makeover/

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Nick
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St. Anthony Main

Postby Nick » March 29th, 2014, 5:50 pm

This is all coming together nicely.

Image

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Anondson
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Re: Northeast - General Topics

Postby Anondson » March 29th, 2014, 7:35 pm

Yah, very nice street wall developing there.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Northeast - General Topics

Postby FISHMANPET » March 29th, 2014, 7:44 pm

Where is that picture exactly Nick?

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Anondson
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Re: Northeast - General Topics

Postby Anondson » March 29th, 2014, 7:51 pm

Main Street SE, looking northwest from 6th.

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Re: Northeast - General Topics

Postby MNdible » March 30th, 2014, 12:47 pm

I was going to say! Posting photos of SE in a NE thread is very risky.


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