Northeast and Southeast Minneapolis - General Topics

Northeast, Near North, Camden, Old St. Anthony, University and surrounding neighborhoods
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Nick
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Re: St. Anthony Main

Postby Nick » March 30th, 2014, 4:31 pm

:-O

MNdible
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Re: St. Anthony Main

Postby MNdible » March 30th, 2014, 6:28 pm

Let's consider this a teachable moment.

xandrex
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Re: Northeast - General Topics

Postby xandrex » March 31st, 2014, 8:43 am

MNdible wrote:I was going to say! Posting photos of SE in a NE thread is very risky.
I've always sort of wondered why whoever was planning the city decided that "Southeast" was a street indicator for this area. I get why it has the name, but wouldn't it have been easier to just keep with the "Northeast" nomenclature and use "Southeast" for...um...the southeastern part of the city? :?

At least today, it seems to throw a lot of people off. I'm asked where I live, and if they're familiar enough with the city, I'll say Marcy-Holmes. But more often than not, that turns into, "Oh, so you live in Dinkytown?" and I then have to explain that I'm west of the highway and pretty close to Hennepin/Central. To which I get, "Okay, so you live in Northeast." And we just go with that, because any time I say, "Technically it's Southeast Minneapolis, but yeah..." I know they've already stopped listening. :mrgreen:

NE-Mark
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Re: Northeast - General Topics

Postby NE-Mark » March 31st, 2014, 11:08 am

xandrex wrote:
MNdible wrote:I was going to say! Posting photos of SE in a NE thread is very risky.
I've always sort of wondered why whoever was planning the city decided that "Southeast" was a street indicator for this area. I get why it has the name, but wouldn't it have been easier to just keep with the "Northeast" nomenclature and use "Southeast" for...um...the southeastern part of the city? :?

At least today, it seems to throw a lot of people off. I'm asked where I live, and if they're familiar enough with the city, I'll say Marcy-Holmes. But more often than not, that turns into, "Oh, so you live in Dinkytown?" and I then have to explain that I'm west of the highway and pretty close to Hennepin/Central. To which I get, "Okay, so you live in Northeast." And we just go with that, because any time I say, "Technically it's Southeast Minneapolis, but yeah..." I know they've already stopped listening. :mrgreen:
Long-time lurker and this post finally pulled me in to posting.

The areas could more accurately be called East-North and East-South instead of NE or SE. NE/SE signifies that you are on the East bank of the Mississippi. The N or S before the E just signifies which side of Hennepin you are on. In the larger context of the city it doesn't make sense that SE 4th St is north of E 25th St but the West bank portions of Minneapolis only use N, E, W or S for street signs so once you know this it is easy to understand--especially for emergency vehicles and first responders.

MplsSteve
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Re: St. Anthony Main

Postby MplsSteve » March 31st, 2014, 2:12 pm

NE-Mark wrote:The areas could more accurately be called East-North and East-South instead of NE or SE. NE/SE signifies that you are on the East bank of the Mississippi. The N or S before the E just signifies which side of Hennepin you are on. In the larger context of the city it doesn't make sense that SE 4th St is north of E 25th St but the West bank portions of Minneapolis only use N, E, W or S for street signs so once you know this it is easy to understand--especially for emergency vehicles and first responders.
City directories form the 1800's used the designations 4th St N, E.D. and 4th St S, E.D. with the "E.D." standing for Eastern Division. Just a little bit O' trivia.

xandrex
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Re: Northeast - General Topics

Postby xandrex » March 31st, 2014, 2:45 pm

NE-Mark wrote:
xandrex wrote:
MNdible wrote:I was going to say! Posting photos of SE in a NE thread is very risky.
I've always sort of wondered why whoever was planning the city decided that "Southeast" was a street indicator for this area. I get why it has the name, but wouldn't it have been easier to just keep with the "Northeast" nomenclature and use "Southeast" for...um...the southeastern part of the city? :?

At least today, it seems to throw a lot of people off. I'm asked where I live, and if they're familiar enough with the city, I'll say Marcy-Holmes. But more often than not, that turns into, "Oh, so you live in Dinkytown?" and I then have to explain that I'm west of the highway and pretty close to Hennepin/Central. To which I get, "Okay, so you live in Northeast." And we just go with that, because any time I say, "Technically it's Southeast Minneapolis, but yeah..." I know they've already stopped listening. :mrgreen:
Long-time lurker and this post finally pulled me in to posting.

The areas could more accurately be called East-North and East-South instead of NE or SE. NE/SE signifies that you are on the East bank of the Mississippi. The N or S before the E just signifies which side of Hennepin you are on. In the larger context of the city it doesn't make sense that SE 4th St is north of E 25th St but the West bank portions of Minneapolis only use N, E, W or S for street signs so once you know this it is easy to understand--especially for emergency vehicles and first responders.
Yes, I'm aware of how NE/SE are assigned (sorry if that sounds snarky...not intended to be!), but it's always struck me as odd that they couldn't have though of a less confusing system. It makes sense when thinking about Hennepin as the city-wide divider, but crossing the river really throws things off, and using a system like Duluth's might have made more sense for the east side of the river: N 1st Ave E or S 1st Ave E. Everything would be East Minneapolis (or whatever) with roads given N or S depending on their side of side of Hennepin.

But now I'm just mucking stuff up. :mrgreen:

MNdible
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Re: Northeast - General Topics

Postby MNdible » March 31st, 2014, 3:44 pm

RailBaronYarr wrote:Not disputing what you're saying MNdible. But what major arterial in Minneapolis doesn't carry significantly asymmetrical traffic patterns (outside maybe University Ave.. maybe a couple others?). I'd be interested in looking into some of the 4-3 conversions on heavily commuter patterned streets and what the result was.
Franklin would be a good example of an arterial that has a more symmetrical traffic pattern. It's probably true of other crosstown streets -- probably even of Lake Street, although my suspicion is that most of Lake Street between Hiawatha and Uptown has too much traffic too allow a 4-3. Broadway and Lowry might be good candidates.

Anyway, it's not just that Central has a highly asymmetrical traffic pattern -- it's that, in conjunction with the fact that its traffic counts in the area we're talking about are either at or well beyond the threshold where most neutral observers agree that such a conversion is a good idea. You acknowledged the fact that some areas have much higher counts, and then just move ahead.

twincitizen
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Re: Northeast - General Topics

Postby twincitizen » March 31st, 2014, 4:42 pm

I love 4:3 conversions, but if we're putting streetcars/aBRT on Central, it's probably best to leave it a 4-lane. Streetcar tracks and stations will do significant traffic calming on their own.

Here's H Street NE in DC:
Image

RailBaronYarr
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Re: Northeast - General Topics

Postby RailBaronYarr » April 1st, 2014, 5:51 pm

I did actually do some casual searching around the city, and you're right that it's difficult to find comparable streets that have been converted 4-3 style in areas with 1) spiky AM/PM demand and 2) busy cross-streets (like 4th, University, and even Hennepin to certain extent). However, I wouldn't necessarily call most traffic engineers (or at least the system they operate under, particularly on a "state highway" like Central) neutral observers.

Call me an idealist, but if the area is so congested with such spiky car demand (which more than likely delays buses and future streetcars), why aren't we exploring other options for the street? Is it not a problem that bicycles share wide lanes that induce fast driving (when lights are green), and sidewalks are barren, skinny, and not supportive of healthy adjacent development? Why not start addressing congestion and throughput in different ways that actually force people to make tough decisions about how they get around and where to live, while making the area more attractive (to live, walk, locate an office building, etc) and reducing total carbon emissions as nice byproducts?

I'll agree that this immediate area will likely see the streetcar come through, and a single lane in each direction would be a pretty big issue. I'm not wild about side-running, mixed-traffic streetcars - the H Street design is already seeing challenges with parked city delivery trucks blocking tracks, to say nothing of regular congestion and in-process parallel parkers slowing down a train with 50+ people on it.. hence why I like center running trams in dedicated ROW. I even noted that in the post wrt buses, but the impacts of a streetcar would be even worse since pulling out (heh) isn't really an option. Problem is, I don't really see a layout for the street that preserves both sides of parking + 2 lanes in each direction that leaves any reasonable room for meaningful pedestrian improvements. For a fraction of the corridor, this isn't a problem due to the industrial nature abutting the street. For much of the rest, it's commercial and residential, and as MNdible has pointed out in the past, squeezing people into 8-11' sidewalks is pretty tight (especially when our snow strategy is to pile it on 3' of already narrow sidewalk space.

Tracks calming traffic is one positive side effect, and a big reason I love rail, but it does little to address mode share significantly. If we're not willing to get rid of grade-separated, region/state-wide connections like 35W and 94, why should Central be seen as an artery that needs to carry 1X,000 cars per day instead of Y,000? I'd be curious to see trip origination/destination data for cars traveling through Henn/1st/Central - are most people using this within 3-4 miles of the river heading downtown? This would back up the notion that an aBRT + streetcar + biking could significantly draw people out of their cars.

[did a quick gut check: AM peak traffic counts are high going southbound at Broadway - 1,500+/hour, yet at 37th Ave the pattern is reversed. AM peak hour traffic saw just 380 heading southbound but 1,033 heading north. To me this somewhat confirms the notion that most people driving across the river and through St Anthony on Central are coming from relatively short distances (south of St Anthony Parkway), thus higher-quality & speed transit along Central & University paired with better biking infrastructure could be viable alternatives - again assuming somewhere downtown or along any LRT line was their destination]

This is the best I can see Central being if 4 lanes and 1 side parking are maintained, maybe it's not so bad if long-term the outer lanes become transit/bike only. Sorry for the reeeally long post.

tabletop
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Re: St. Anthony Main

Postby tabletop » April 1st, 2014, 9:03 pm

I remember hearing someone refer to this area as Downtown Northeast and I thought that was brilliant.

eazydp
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Re: St. Anthony Main

Postby eazydp » April 3rd, 2014, 10:34 pm

The first piece of property I looked to purchase was in the original re-development plan of the Pillsbury A mill property, they were taking $5,000 deposits at the time. Little did I know that the market was teetering on the brink of the melt down. I remember the sales person showing me the developers genius plan to try and move the retail off of the riverfront and onto a new street they would have created in the middle of a few new buildings and behind the Pillsbury Mill building. It was ambitious but absolutely ludicrous. They imagined poaching Tuggs from that patio, their only draw, into their new corridor. This scale seems to make more sense for the neighborhood but it would have been fun to see the alternate reality.

Didier
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Re: Northeast - General Topics

Postby Didier » April 8th, 2014, 8:40 pm

New restaurant at University and Hennepin.

http://www.journalmpls.com/news-feed/op ... n-jl-beers

go4guy
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Re: Northeast - General Topics

Postby go4guy » April 9th, 2014, 11:18 am

Im very excited about this one. Great burgers. And the others that I have been to have a great atmosphere.

lordmoke
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Re: 1401 Marshall NE

Postby lordmoke » April 14th, 2014, 1:37 pm

This sounds like it's turning into quite the exciting project- Chowgirls will be moving in to the new space and constructing an addition! Hopefully some significant exterior work is in the plans for building as well:
http://www.journalmpls.com/news-feed/go ... -northeast

min-chi-cbus
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Re: 1401 Marshall NE

Postby min-chi-cbus » April 14th, 2014, 10:04 pm

"Chowgirls"? Yum! 8-)

tabletop
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Re: 1401 Marshall NE

Postby tabletop » April 16th, 2014, 1:58 am

From my understanding the building is going to be the distribution hub for Kieran Foillard's (or now I guess its Jim Beam's) 2 Gingers Whiskey. Should be a great addition to the neighborhood either way.

lordmoke
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Re: Northeast - General Topics

Postby lordmoke » April 16th, 2014, 3:46 pm

1401 Marshall Plans. Nothing super exciting:
http://minneapolismn.gov/www/groups/pub ... 123401.pdf

lordmoke
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Re: Northeast - General Topics

Postby lordmoke » April 30th, 2014, 10:44 am

Excited to see where the Hollywood goes:
http://www.minnpost.com/politics-policy ... -theater-1

gotti612
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Re: Northeast - General Topics

Postby gotti612 » April 30th, 2014, 12:24 pm

Hollywood Theatre/Adjacent lot...

http://www.minnpost.com/politics-policy ... -theater-1

This has enormous potential especially with the vacant lot on the other side of Johnson and 28th (approx. 1 acre). Considering the numerous locally owned shops 1 block away on 29th could benefit enormously from daytime foot traffic this would be a great lot for 3-4 story residential/street level office space right on the high frequency #4 bus route.

mplsjaromir
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Re: Northeast - General Topics

Postby mplsjaromir » April 30th, 2014, 1:12 pm

Unfortunately the 4 is not an official High Frequency route. It would make a fine candidate if MT ever decides to expand its offerings.


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