Northside - General Topics

Northeast, Near North, Camden, Old St. Anthony, University and surrounding neighborhoods
alleycat
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Re: Northside - General Topics

Postby alleycat » March 20th, 2014, 9:25 pm

Nick wrote:There aren't any recent permits pulled on 404 West Broadway, so that seems unlikely.

http://apps.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/PIApp/ ... 2924230173
That's what I thought too. A friend talked to a Kemps employee today who said this weekend. I thought it seemed doubtful. I spoke to the West Broadway Coalitions director last week and I didn't think it would be this quick. The HPC commissioner I'm friends with also couldn't find a permit.
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Re: Northside - General Topics

Postby seanrichardryan » March 20th, 2014, 11:16 pm

Online permits are not immedietly updated, sometimes it takes weeks.
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Re: Northside - General Topics

Postby twincitizen » March 24th, 2014, 8:51 am

Developer Devean George is a player in North Side redevelopment:
http://www.startribune.com/business/251614911.html

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Re: Northside - General Topics

Postby seanrichardryan » April 24th, 2014, 7:42 pm

According to Madeline Douglas, a wrecking review was ordered on the 14th. SHUT IT DOWN!
alleycat wrote:The IOOF building and it's neighboring old school White Castle were bought by Kemps recently. They plan to turn it into more parking for their trucks. A big fence would likely go right at the gateway to north.

Image

It looks like they may be demoed this weekend. Apparently since Kemps has no plans they won't have to bring it in front of the planning commission and the city has no recourse in this demo. That seems like a huge loophole for property owners to skirt city policy, zoning, et al. This will put huge pressure on the neighboring Friedman's Department Store.

What a week...
*edit spelling
Last edited by seanrichardryan on April 25th, 2014, 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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alleycat
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Re: Northside - General Topics

Postby alleycat » April 24th, 2014, 9:38 pm

There doesn't seem to be any real avenue to do that without declaring the building a historic structure. I wish the preservationists in this city cared nearly as much about commercial structures like this and Totino's and laid off the Healy pipe for just a few minutes.
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tabletop
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Re: Northside - General Topics

Postby tabletop » April 25th, 2014, 5:52 am

I wonder if W Broadway, aside from the strip mall style development, would have any chance at attaining a historically designated district. It's really the only large remaining collection of early century commercial buildings in Minneapolis.

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Re: Northside - General Topics

Postby alleycat » April 25th, 2014, 11:24 am

tabletop wrote:I wonder if W Broadway, aside from the strip mall style development, would have any chance at attaining a historically designated district. It's really the only large remaining collection of early century commercial buildings in Minneapolis.
I think it could definitely fit into the Conservation District designation if you pulled the disparate nodes at 4th Street, Emerson, Irving and Penn together as a district. I just sent an email to John Smoley outlining the importance of this structure and it's neighboring properties from both a historic perspective, but also from a zoning lens. The demo of these two structures will put pressure on Friedman's which definitely should have a historic designation.

If you guys care about good old fashioned urbansim take some time out of your day and email John.Smoley@minneapolismn.gov or call him at 612.673.2830.
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Re: Northside - General Topics

Postby FISHMANPET » April 26th, 2014, 2:09 pm

What is historic about this building, other than it's old? We just went through this with 2320 Colfax, using historic preservation as an excuse to preserve a building that in mine and City staff's opinion isn't historic.

I can't be a hypocrite and say that 2320 Colfax wasn't historic while saying this one is (and maybe I'm wrong but when you have to go fishing for history I think that in and of itself is evidence that there probably isn't historic merit).

I want this building saved, because I don't want buildings to be torn down only to be replaced by less intensive land uses, and I'm not willing to abuse a historic preservation process that I think has already been perverted to an extreme.

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Re: Northside - General Topics

Postby alleycat » April 26th, 2014, 3:47 pm

There are big H historic structures that fall into the historic landmarks category and little h historic structures that may be deemed historic resources. Some may not on the surface of things seem to be "historic," but there may be enough supporting facts to deem it a historic resource. 404 West Broadway was home to the Independent Order of Odd Fellows, an important fraternal organization with two lodges on the northside. The neighboring structure is the only non-portable White Castle from that era left in the Twin Cities. It is also unique for being mid-block. There are a lot of supporting information compiled by folks at the Old North Minneapolis Facebook page.

Honestly I don't know if these buildings will be saved by this tactic, but it is John Smoley's job to research relevant buildings. Providing him with any important historical facts will determine whether the demo permit goes forward. I'd rather argue this demo on the basis of the West Broadway Alive comprehensive plan and the parcels zoning. Unfortunately there are no means to do that. Kemp's bought the property. They don't plan to build anything. They can go ahead and knock it down if they are not historic resources.

Now before you head on over to that Facebook page, you ought to know that quite a few of the principal contributors to that page support density in north. Don't let the southside NIMBYs that are latching onto this confuse you. We have two prime commercial corridors plus Fremont, Emerson, Lyndale, Plymouth, Glenwood and Penn that could handle dense development. Repopulating north and developing vacant parcels will be key to bringing back commercial structures like these two.

I can guarantee that, aside from David Greene, very few of you have spent much time up here. I didn't before buying a home over north. I'd love to take you guys on a bike tour of the area and let you know what our issues are besides the obvious one.
Last edited by alleycat on April 26th, 2014, 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Northside - General Topics

Postby FISHMANPET » April 26th, 2014, 7:52 pm

I'm on my phone so I've only skimmed what you've written, but from what you've said those properties do have some historic significance in my opinion (for what little that matters), at least more than 2320 Colfax does.

I'd love to go on a bike tour of the area, and I would like these buildings not to be taken down. I just don't want to use the wrong tool to do that (even if it achieves the desired goal) because I think the tool is broken, and I want to fix the tool, as well as create a proper tool.

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Re: Northside - General Topics

Postby alleycat » April 26th, 2014, 8:17 pm

FISHMANPET wrote:I just don't want to use the wrong tool to do that (even if it achieves the desired goal) because I think the tool is broken, and I want to fix the tool, as well as create a proper tool.

I agree, but still hope that the supporting historical information provided will sway John Smoley. That will put pressure on Kemps to reuse the properties for offices, an ice cream shop or sell them. They provide good jobs, but their street frontage is insulting. This demo will make things worse.

I'd also like preservationists and nimbys posing as preservationists to think harder about their use of the HPC. Not every Healy house is created equal. Time wasted on that home distracts from buildings like the IOOF and creates enemies from natural allies.
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Re: Northside - General Topics

Postby FISHMANPET » April 26th, 2014, 8:43 pm

I don't like having to come out against historic preservation when the HPC oversteps what I think are its boundaries, but I have no problem using historic preservation to protect historic resources.

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Re: Northside - General Topics

Postby FISHMANPET » April 26th, 2014, 10:33 pm

I'm not going to wade into the Facebook discussion about these buildings, because I'm usually pretty inflammatory, but I'm really tired of the idea that people seem to be convinced of that everything is corrupt by default. And these people seem to be the least informed yet loudest.

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Re: Northside - General Topics

Postby mattaudio » April 27th, 2014, 7:05 pm

Regardless of historical significance, it seems like there should be a mechanism for preventing parking lots to replace buildings along the sidewalks of commercial corridors. Maybe there should be some sort of clause that one cannot replace a demolished building with a parking lot without a variance. That would remove the appeal of demolitions such as this.

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Re: Northside - General Topics

Postby ECtransplant » April 27th, 2014, 7:58 pm

Just extend the no new surface lots edict from downtown to cover all of the city

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Re: Northside - General Topics

Postby Nathan » April 27th, 2014, 9:38 pm

but if a church can get passed it, I'd imagine Kemps could.

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Re: Northside - General Topics

Postby David Greene » April 27th, 2014, 10:13 pm

FISHMANPET wrote:I'd love to go on a bike tour of the area, and I would like these buildings not to be taken down. I just don't want to use the wrong tool to do that (even if it achieves the desired goal) because I think the tool is broken, and I want to fix the tool, as well as create a proper tool.
Wish I'd seen this earlier. This weekend was the Minneapolis-St. Paul Home Tour and there were several really nice properties to look at on the north side. Old Highland, within Near North between Plymouth and Broadway, is rapidly gentrifying. I've often wondered about how people in the area feel about it. From what I can gather, the neighborhood is in an analogous state to what the Wedge went through in the '70's and '80's: recently stabilized from drug and prostitution problems, now working to restore period homes.

Homewood (within Willard-Hay) is sort of a "newer money" version of, say, Crocus Hill or Summit Ave. west of Dale. There are some truly stunning, very large houses up there. In the 1920's it was a country gated community, with prohibitions on people of Jewish and African-American descent living there. It has some great vistas of the "Valley of Gold" as I like to call it Bottineau will go right by below the bluffs. It was hit hard by the tornado and work is ongoing to fix up the houses.

Of course the Broadway corridor is just excellent. Travel it and you'll understand why these commercial buildings are important to save. Most of the rest of them are gone, replaced by strip malls and parking lots.

I love taking Glenwood out of the city when driving west. There's some new stuff being built there and the corridor is about ready to explode with renewal. Southwest LRT is going to be the trigger for it. The community is looking to set up a co-op in the area and rumor is that a brewery may go in at the old Glenwood-Inglewood facility. International Market Square may yet live up to its potential.

I've only recently started exploring Jordan and Hawthorne. The area across Broadway from the Capri is pretty interesting. It's got a layout like Tangletown.

I spent the first five years of my life in Robbinsdale, pretty much across the street from the Cleveland neighborhood. I've got lots of fond memories from that area, particularly biking with the fam along Victory Memorial Pkwy.

My dad used to take me to a junkyard just off 94 in Camden. It had a car sitting high up on a pole, visible from the freeway. Here it is: http://goo.gl/maps/KEpzT. He never actually bought anything there, so maybe he just went for nostalgia's sake as he grew up in North.

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Re: Northside - General Topics

Postby alleycat » April 30th, 2014, 9:16 am

The two properties have been deemed historic resources.
Thanks very much for this information. The Planning Director has determined that the buildings at 404(410) West Broadway are historic resources. The wrecking/moving application cannot be issued without review and approval of a Demolition of a Historic Resource application by the Heritage Preservation Commission. Please let me know if you have questions, and thanks again.

John
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Re: Northside - General Topics

Postby David Greene » April 30th, 2014, 9:27 am

alleycat wrote:The two properties have been deemed historic resources.
Fantastic! What's the next step?

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Re: Northside - General Topics

Postby alleycat » April 30th, 2014, 10:02 am

Moves to HPC to for demo of historic resource vote. I doubt the HPC would recommend demoing a staff recommended historic resource. Some folks have already applied for historic landmark status.
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