Target Center Renovation

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
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Nathan
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Re: Target Center Renovation

Postby Nathan » May 13th, 2014, 4:11 pm

I think there is a little over reacting going on, and again... I think there are a number of people on this forum who are TERRIBLE at interpreting renderings. Just terrible. To think the exterior was covered in wood/laminate, is laughable. Love you people, but sometimes...

Personally I like the cladding, it reminds me of the earth's layering in NE MN the same way Target Field imitates the geological layering in SW Minnesota.

I think that the Cantilevered sections look a little tacked on, but compliment the future mayo clinic square, and the library well.

The corner of the building has definitely opened up and is more inviting.

The horizontal light bars included in the facade help break up the large hulking mass of the building.

The arcade under the 1st Ave side is much taller, more open, the green facade there? I'm not sure what that is, or how I feel about it, but it's going to feel drastically better when you're on the sidewalk, which is the important part.

Also the cramped space along 6th with the promenade to Target Field looks much more cohesive and put together rather than jumbled and thrown together.

Sure there are some things that looked a little tacked on, and may/probably be finessed a little bit, but with only what 20M (or so) going to the exterior did anyone really expect more than a re-cladding and opening up? They can't actually change the structure of the place. I'm immediately concerned about the faces we can't see yet, but maybe they just haven't been fleshed out yet.

I think the priority, and probably rightfully so is on fan experience on the interior, creating spaces, and bettering the building on a whole.

Are the good urban environment issues addressed, I think so. Is it everyone's personal style no... but it's funky and new and much better than what we have.

Also the article says the renderings show what it MIGHT look like.

Deep Breaths.

grant1simons2
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Re: Target Center Renovation

Postby grant1simons2 » May 13th, 2014, 4:15 pm

^^ Thanks for explaining this. I was cringing going through some of what people said

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Target Center Renovation

Postby FISHMANPET » May 13th, 2014, 4:20 pm

I think it's easy to let architectural criticism devolve into a discussion of "architectural styles I personally like" because that's where most architectural criticism from this site comes off as. I'm sure there's a more nuanced way to do it, but I sure don't know what it is. So that's why I try to stick to the urbanism, because that's easier for me to define in more objective terms.

However since I've never been to the Target Center and probably never will, and rarely even travel in front of the Target Center, I basically have nothing to stay about this.

John
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Re: Target Center Renovation

Postby John » May 13th, 2014, 4:25 pm

The entrance looks better that the current one. I applaud that effort. But I think its legitimate to be concerned about the "cost cutting" of this project. I think the exterior has the potential to look cheap if not a bit tacky ( just like the current one! LOL). The renovation needs to last for decades. Always, I mean always, it's far better to spend a little more money upfront to produce quality in architecture. It pays for itself over and over again with a building's increased longevity and a design that endures.

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Nathan
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Re: Target Center Renovation

Postby Nathan » May 13th, 2014, 4:25 pm


Wedgeguy
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Re: Target Center Renovation

Postby Wedgeguy » May 13th, 2014, 4:27 pm

Let's hope that they read the distaste we have for the current exterior cladding. I'm not that upset about the glass cube as I am the schizophrenic exterior cladding. While spending money on the fan experience is paramount. Leaving an ugly scar on the cities edge is not worthy of this project. They cashed up for $150M. Let's use a few more of those M to have a building we can be proud of and not one we make sarcastic jokes about. I know they want to be under 100M, but let's spend at least another 10M and do this project the right way.
We know the people who tore down the Metropolitan building, that is a living legacy. Do these people really want to have a awful legacy on there shoulders too??
Last edited by Wedgeguy on May 13th, 2014, 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Anondson
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Re: Target Center Renovation

Postby Anondson » May 13th, 2014, 4:28 pm

I like the rendering over the existing in the side by side. The existing has a smothering presence. Not to say it couldn't be improved even greater. I'm okay with it.

twinkess
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Re: Target Center Renovation

Postby twinkess » May 13th, 2014, 4:30 pm

Minnekid wrote:I understand that it is not the most attractive but at least the entrance has been moved to the corner. I feel as though the problem with the target center was an outdated interior, even more so than the exterior. So even if it looks a little crappy on the outside, I think the inside will be done well. At least I hope..lol

Previous blueprints showed the entrance in the same place. I'm not sure it got moved. I would love it to be moved because I use the entrance on 1st ave and 6th street daily to access the skyway and in previous iterations that entrance was gone.

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Nathan
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Re: Target Center Renovation

Postby Nathan » May 13th, 2014, 4:39 pm


mplsjaromir
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Re: Target Center Renovation

Postby mplsjaromir » May 13th, 2014, 4:48 pm

I really like it. We are not going to get United Center Art Deco chic for $20 million. The way TC will interact with 1st Ave will a boon to this block. No doubt the TC and Mayo Clinic Square(???) will compliment each other. Hopefully the tunnel feeling from the arcade on 1st Ave can be minimized. Opening up this box to the outside to its most active sides 6th St and 1st Ave will be most important.

My guess is that the north side of the building will have a bar that will have access to the balcony, it will make going to events in the summer more appealing knowing you can enjoy the outdoors a bit during an event.

kiliff75
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Re: Target Center Renovation

Postby kiliff75 » May 13th, 2014, 5:30 pm

It looks like there's going to be some sort of exterior deck on the fourth or fifth floor that faces 6th street and target field...anyone else seeing that? If so, that would be pretty neat looking from target center and from target field...

timdski
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Re: Target Center Renovation

Postby timdski » May 13th, 2014, 6:51 pm

Yeah, this isn't great, but I think it's hard to argue that it looks worse than the current exterior. If interior renovations are nicely done, it is probably worth short-changing the exterior changes. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

John
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Re: Target Center Renovation

Postby John » May 13th, 2014, 7:21 pm

I agree the corner entrance is a huge improvement over what currently exists and the iridescent metal exterior will be very kinetic and beautiful. I think its the roof that I'm a little disappointed with. The original renovation renderings showed it cantilevered with dramatic angles making it look less "arena-like" and very distinctive. Unfortunately, I suspect this is where they decided to cut the budget on the exterior. Too bad.
Image
Last edited by John on May 13th, 2014, 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Aville_37
Union Depot
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Re: Target Center Renovation

Postby Aville_37 » May 13th, 2014, 7:23 pm

HiawathaGuy wrote:I think it looks really cool and will be a very nice complement to Target Field and Mayo Clinic Square.
But it's pretty clear I'm in the minority on this site...

I like the increased glass, the new texture of the metal panels, and the darker look. I think it's a HUGE improvement over the current concrete look. And it's not like they have a ton of money to redo this building with... I'm surprised to see the corner glass piece still a part of the redo!

I also like - opens it up which was one of the goals.

David Greene
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Re: Target Center Renovation

Postby David Greene » May 13th, 2014, 7:52 pm

I agree the 1st Ave. side is a big improvement and the corner is way better.

John's posting of the original rendering demonstrates exactly what I'm complaining about. Those cantilevered overhangs do a wonderful job of breaking up the monotony of the building. I actually prefer the white, more interesting exterior over the metal, boring goemetric exterior.

And Nathan, I sincerely apologize for being a blubbering idiot at "interpreting" renderings. I really ought to gouge out my eyes and replace them with something perfect.

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Nathan
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Re: Target Center Renovation

Postby Nathan » May 13th, 2014, 8:11 pm

Apology accepted. No need to gouge out ones eyes, but maybe less frenzied doomsday rhetoric responses to preliminary renderings where we're assuming details might be a good compromise?

John, I agree the place holder rendering for this project had some cool things going on, I think it's just a good lesson that when these kinds of renderings are released... how many were there for the Vikings Stadium?... We shouldn't grow attached to them or assume the hired architect will even look at them.

Jfuss
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Re: Target Center Renovation

Postby Jfuss » May 13th, 2014, 8:27 pm

David Greene wrote:I agree the 1st Ave. side is a big improvement and the corner is way better.

John's posting of the original rendering demonstrates exactly what I'm complaining about. Those cantilevered overhangs do a wonderful job of breaking up the monotony of the building. I actually prefer the white, more interesting exterior over the metal, boring goemetric exterior.

And Nathan, I sincerely apologize for being a blubbering idiot at "interpreting" renderings. I really ought to gouge out my eyes and replace them with something perfect.
If my memory serves me correct, I believe an official stated the cantilevered overhangs were no longer a possibility because of the lowered renovation price. So regardless of which design firm was selected the exterior was going to be the part of the renovation that was going to be short changed the most.

jet777
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Re: Target Center Renovation

Postby jet777 » May 13th, 2014, 8:30 pm

Architecturally speaking, it's a caricature of a baby chicken's beak.

IllogicalJake
Target Field
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Re: Target Center Renovation

Postby IllogicalJake » May 13th, 2014, 8:56 pm

jet777 wrote:Architecturally speaking, it's a caricature of a baby chicken's beak.
Can't unsee now... Dammit...
i talk too much. web dev, downtown. admin @ tower.ly

aeisenberg
Union Depot
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Re: Target Center Renovation

Postby aeisenberg » May 13th, 2014, 11:33 pm

So we're paying $100M to make the Target Center look like the Target Center giving birth to an IKEA.
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