Green Line LRT

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
mattaudio
Stone Arch Bridge
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby mattaudio » July 23rd, 2014, 12:17 pm

The "Bloomington Model" is replacing an interchange at 494/34th Ave with a new expensive SPUI that benefits cars and harms transit users (the train is now much worse than the old configuration at 494).

They still seem overly concerned about N/S traffic. Should N/S traffic be a priority? Yes. Should it be a higher priority than the performance of the new billion dollar transit backbone of our region? Of course not.

VAStationDude
US Bank Plaza
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby VAStationDude » July 23rd, 2014, 12:53 pm

I call bs on St Paul being committed to transit priority. Trains miss a vertical bar by mere seconds quite often which shouldn't happen if the signals have the ability to extend the university phase if a train is in the vicinity.

David Greene
IDS Center
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby David Greene » July 23rd, 2014, 12:55 pm

MinnMonkey wrote:The problem I still have with this response is that Bloomington is using pre-emption not transit priority. This image from Bing Maps proves it: http://goo.gl/uR6WuT
Microsoft wrote:Your computer isn’t supported
Bing maps doesn’t work on your computer
You can use Bing Maps on computers running Windows XP and later or Intel-based Mac OS X 10.4.8 and later.
And they wonder why they had to lay off 10% of their workforce.

MinnMonkey
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby MinnMonkey » July 23rd, 2014, 1:03 pm

David Greene wrote:
MinnMonkey wrote:The problem I still have with this response is that Bloomington is using pre-emption not transit priority. This image from Bing Maps proves it: http://goo.gl/uR6WuT
Microsoft wrote:Your computer isn’t supported
Bing maps doesn’t work on your computer
You can use Bing Maps on computers running Windows XP and later or Intel-based Mac OS X 10.4.8 and later.
And they wonder why they had to lay off 10% of their workforce.
You're not missing that much. The picture just shows a train approaching an intersection in Bloomington and the signal pre-emption light is also illuminated.

HiawathaGuy
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby HiawathaGuy » July 23rd, 2014, 1:36 pm

mattaudio wrote:The "Bloomington Model" is replacing an interchange at 494/34th Ave with a new expensive SPUI that benefits cars and harms transit users (the train is now much worse than the old configuration at 494).

They still seem overly concerned about N/S traffic. Should N/S traffic be a priority? Yes. Should it be a higher priority than the performance of the new billion dollar transit backbone of our region? Of course not.
I don't agree with you... the train really isn't effected "much worse" with the interchange being redone. I've ridden the train from 50th Street to MOA since the line opened in 2004. If anything, the train gets stopped at the crossroads along 34th Ave S. between Terminal 2 & 494 far more than it ever does at this interchange. If it efficiently moves more cars (again - there's a major airport terminal and a lot of future growth, that like it or not, means people will need their automobiles to get to around there), then it's a plus for everyone.

I don't need to take the train to work, but I do. I also understand that not everyone has that ability - so I prefer to see improvements made to all forms of transportation modes. Upgrading a congested interchange to move everyone perfectly is always difficult, but I do think this certainly does okay.

As for pre-emption along this stretch, as I just stated, trains often have to stop for a vertical bar along this stretch when the timing of the lights is off. So in reality, it may improve the Green Line along University some - but it certainly won't be 'perfect'. But I think most everyone on here would agree that even that would be a far cry over current state. Imagine if downtown Minneapolis and St. Paul's stretch of University were to perform like 34th Ave S. from Humphrey to MOA.

mattaudio
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby mattaudio » July 23rd, 2014, 1:45 pm

Re 34th Ave: Exactly what was wrong with the 34th Avenue interchange prior to reconstruction? I never experienced a backup, waiting multiple signal cycles, etc. How much economic development will this new interchange create that would not have existed without the old one? Enough to justify $4.2 million dollars in economic development subsidy from DEED?

HiawathaGuy
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby HiawathaGuy » July 23rd, 2014, 1:59 pm

mattaudio wrote:Re 34th Ave: Exactly what was wrong with the 34th Avenue interchange prior to reconstruction? I never experienced a backup, waiting multiple signal cycles, etc. How much economic development will this new interchange create that would not have existed without the old one? Enough to justify $4.2 million dollars in economic development subsidy from DEED?
I used to work at Health Partners, and when I did drive, the backup on the off ramp from westbound 494/5 to 34th was usually high. Oftentimes deeper than the amount of cars that could make it through one light cycle - assuming no train. Couple that with the increased traffic MAC expects at Terminal 2 over the next 10-15 years, plus all the other development planned south of 494, the east bound 494 off ramp can and did (and will) be heavily used.

VAStationDude
US Bank Plaza
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby VAStationDude » July 25th, 2014, 10:14 am

Just saw a single car in service set going east from Stadium Village. I'm on a west bound train that is one (could be eleven, I suppose) minute late into the East Bank Station.

MinnMonkey
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby MinnMonkey » July 25th, 2014, 11:58 am

St. Paul Mayor Considers Traffic Light Changes to Speed up Green Line Ride:
http://kstp.com/article/stories/s3513740.shtml

and

St. Paul Mayor: We'll get those Green Line times down:
http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/m ... -down.html
Good News!

IllogicalJake
Target Field
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby IllogicalJake » July 25th, 2014, 12:35 pm

MinnMonkey wrote:St. Paul Mayor Considers Traffic Light Changes to Speed up Green Line Ride:
http://kstp.com/article/stories/s3513740.shtml

and

St. Paul Mayor: We'll get those Green Line times down:
http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/m ... -down.html
Good News!
But I have to point out this line:

"He added that it makes sense for trains to wait at busier intersections."

I know it's better than nothing, but I'm not so encouraged.
i talk too much. web dev, downtown. admin @ tower.ly

EOst
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby EOst » July 25th, 2014, 12:53 pm

The more control MT has over the signal timing, the better they'll be able to time the signals to let trains through without even needing full priority at the major intersections. Let's give this the benefit of the doubt for now.

nate
Landmark Center
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby nate » July 25th, 2014, 1:18 pm

IllogicalJake wrote:
MinnMonkey wrote:St. Paul Mayor Considers Traffic Light Changes to Speed up Green Line Ride:
http://kstp.com/article/stories/s3513740.shtml

and

St. Paul Mayor: We'll get those Green Line times down:
http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/m ... -down.html
Good News!
But I have to point out this line:

"He added that it makes sense for trains to wait at busier intersections."

I know it's better than nothing, but I'm not so encouraged.
I'm fine with this, as long as "major intersections" means Rice, Dale, Lexington, and Snelling -- and no others.

Also, if signal prioritization is allowed to work as intended, I bet the worst of the delays will be taken care of. As noted by many riders on here and elsewhere, right now the train often misses its bar signal by a couple seconds (shouldn't be happening), then has to wait through the EB/WB left turn phase as well as NB/SB phases. That usually means a 2-3 minute delay. If that happens twice per run, we're down to 48 minutes and the world looks better.

Minneapolisite

Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby Minneapolisite » July 25th, 2014, 4:20 pm

Wednesday: 12 min late. Thursday: 5 min late. Friday: 6 min late. All at Nicollet station and the last two worked in my favor.

MinnMonkey
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby MinnMonkey » July 26th, 2014, 4:58 pm

Rode from downtown St. PAUL do downtown Minneapolis this afternoon, and was stopped at EVERY SINGLE LIGHT between the Capitol and highway 280 except Pascal and Cleveland. Added nearly 15 minutes to the trip.

I felt bad for one lady who was going to miss her connecting bus because of the delays. She was going to be late for work and was worrying about losing her job.

Minneapolisite

Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby Minneapolisite » July 26th, 2014, 6:04 pm

And just think of how many other people are in her shoes, to which the city of St Paul is like, "Well, looks like you should have bought a car. What, you expected us to make a billion dollar train work? Where do you think you are? Minneapolis?"

Time issues aside, I need to hit up Victoria and Western more often: so many great cheap dining options. I think Raymond Station is still my favorite over in St Paul for stations between the downtowns. I'm tempted to do a Green Line station ranking, but I have yet to hit them all up.

Unity77
Landmark Center
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby Unity77 » July 27th, 2014, 2:53 pm

I can't handle all the stops. Honestly, having to stop at a stop light and then immediately stopping again at the station is ridiculous. Add the fact that there are too many stations and it gets to the point that taking the train is a waste of time for people who actually need to be somewhere on time. IF these problems are fixed, I might consider taking the line again, but until that happens, I'm walking, biking, taking Lyft, or driving. This line should have been something to be proud of, but instead it's an embarrassment. I was really looking forward to the Green Line as I live off University and Raymond.

tabletop
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby tabletop » July 28th, 2014, 8:04 am

That sounds like a complaint of the 16! ;) Agreed, the stops at intersections are unacceptable.

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Nathan
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby Nathan » July 28th, 2014, 9:45 am

transit takes time to work out, but also just takes more time in general. getting some places in nyc that are similar distances take nearly an hour as well even with dedicated row, but people there expect it and have the expectation and value what it does for them. if you're just going to compare this to driving your car between the two downtowns then it was a failure before they started construction. it's a different value set obviously a lot of Midwestern people don't have. in large cities taking a long time to get somewhere is expected and sometimes valued. obviously I'd love the train to catch a green wave from dt to dt... and I hope they make some remedies, but people should also plan ahead for unexpected delays if they're at risk for losing their job whether by car bus or train.

ECtransplant
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby ECtransplant » July 28th, 2014, 11:08 am

The subway is usually faster than driving in NYC, often significantly

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Nathan
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Re: Green Line (Central Corridor LRT)

Postby Nathan » July 28th, 2014, 11:28 am

ECtransplant wrote:The subway is usually faster than driving in NYC, often significantly
I didn't say it wasn't, I said that people here have a faster expectation of travel and it might be a little unreasonable... (because of cars/convenience and a lack of transit in our culture)


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