U.S. Bank Stadium

[moda253]

Why? Maybe if people are stuck in slow traffic, they'll do what motorists do during snowstorms etc... depart early or late.

Scarce goods can be provisioned by price or by queue.

Provisioning by price would be congestion pricing, either tolls for freeways or a toll to get in/out of Downtown like London has.
Provisioning by queue involves people having to wait.

That's a fundamental concept of economics.

Oh right. The evil motorists. Forgot.

[mattaudio]

And what constitutes acceptable congestion vs problematic congestion?

[moda253]

Instead of anecdotes, is there any data, numbers, on where where acceptable congestion vs. problematic congestion is happening due to this downtown egress?

I think a better solution than emptying cars out of downtown faster, would be to demolish as many parking facilities in the CBD as is reasonable (hotel/resident ramps stay, commuter ramps gone) and replaced much further out, closer to the exit ramps.

That is interesting except then why would businesses remain downtown when they could just move out to the suburbs and their employees be much happier parking onsite? I could be wrong but isn't the bulk of people downtown, people that commute to work? Making downtown less hospitable to businesses downtown could be even more disastrous to downtown than the effect the MOA had on shopping traffic downtown.

This conversation started because 6th street is viewed as a problem. Indeed is there any data or numbers that show that 6th street is a problem aside from aesthetics?

[IllogicalJake]

Seems like this would help get some data. There's even a PDF guide for running reports and simulations.

http://www.minneapolismn.gov/publicwork ... fic-counts

[mattaudio]

Here are the data points.
Number of lanes: 3+
Design speed: 30 MPH+

And why would people want to work in the suburbs? If they wanted to work in the suburbs, there's already plenty of opportunity to get a job there. But more and more people don't want the hell of a freeway commute to a soulless corporate office.

[moda253]

Here are the data points.
Number of lanes: 3+
Design speed: 30 MPH+

And why would people want to work in the suburbs? If they wanted to work in the suburbs, there's already plenty of opportunity to get a job there. But more and more people don't want the hell of a freeway commute to a soulless corporate office.

Really? Most everyone I have worked with in a corporate setting would gladly not pay for parking in exchange for driving a little further to work. People aren't getting out of their cars and they certainly aren't doing it before we have comprehensive convenient mass transit that they grow up with. Taking into account that we are pushing back the opening of a line over park board and elitist residents squashing it I would say that isn't happening too soon. And funny where is that line going to run to? From downtown to the golden triangle... one of the largest jobs growth areas in the twin cities area.

[Tyler]

Dual of the stereotypers.

[Anondson]

Personal anecdote, while I neither work downtown nor at a suburban corporate campus today, I had worked at each in the past. I disliked paying for the parking downtown when I was doing that, but eventually grew to prefer it over the distance and separation from everything the campus offered. The skyway walk in the morning, afternoon, and evening past businesses and restaurants and entertainment, plus being around people other than coworkers, was worth every day what I paid for parking. I'm eager to get a job downtown again.

Some numbers for daily amounts.
18,100 between Hennepin and 4th.
13,500 between 4th and Chicago.
12,200 between Chicago and the exit ramp

[Nathan]

Ok. I'm going to be that guy.
I know the stadium is partially the cause for the road change, but none of this has to do with the stadium.

[Anondson]

True, the tangent about 6th could be moved off to the downtown general topics...

[moda253]

Personal anecdote, while I neither work downtown nor at a suburban corporate campus today, I had worked at each in the past. I disliked paying for the parking downtown when I was doing that, but eventually grew to prefer it over the distance and separation from everything the campus offered. The skyway walk in the morning, afternoon, and evening past businesses and restaurants and entertainment, plus being around people other than coworkers, was worth every day what I paid for parking. I'm eager to get a job downtown again.

Some numbers for daily amounts.
18,100 between Hennepin and 4th.
13,500 between 4th and Chicago.
12,200 between Chicago and the exit ramp

Ok but that still doesn't explain to me how demolishing all the parking ramps is going to play to the strength of businesses retaining people working downtown. We don't have very good mass transit, people don't like to ride the bus, and we live in a cold weather climate. It would be great to have people park and ride in from various locations surrounding the city and remove the parking ramps but I assume that was a bit pie in the sky talk.

What I find fascinating was that I was suggesting a possible solution that could turn 6th into a much more pedestrian friendly area but was met with the idea that we need to make it worse on drivers either through frustration or by taxation so that they agree to change their ways or pay for the changes. That seems absurd to me. We all already pay for the roads through taxes. I think we can come up with better solutions than, forcing people to bend to our will one way or another no? We need better mass transit but that isn't happening anytime soon. IN the meantime can we not find decent solutions that don't vilify people. Changing the game on people that drive to work because that's the life that they have come to know seems wrong to me. People aren't driving their cars to work because they are anti anything. It's just what they do because that's how society currently works. Sticking them with tax seems wrong when they can't necessarily just change where they work or the way their lives function around getting to work doesn't seem right.

[moda253]

Ok. I'm going to be that guy.
I know the stadium is partially the cause for the road change, but none of this has to do with the stadium.

Well it runs right along one side of the stadium and it would be nice to have better pedestrian interaction with the stadium and hopefully spur better development on the south side of the street. But really as it stands right now what is on 6th that is worth interacting with other than Huberts and ?

[moda253]

Of course the current configuration of 6th street and it being an access point is probably one reason that the site was attractive as a spot for the stadium to be built. That and it being on the location of two light rail lines with access nearby to 94 eastbound and 35w southbound (35w northbound but washington is a nightmare after a game) so 6th needs to be at least as functional as it currently is

[Nathan]

Ok. I'm going to be that guy.
I know the stadium is partially the cause for the road change, but none of this has to do with the stadium.

Well it runs right along one side of the stadium and it would be nice to have better pedestrian interaction with the stadium and hopefully spur better development on the south side of the street. But really as it stands right now what is on 6th that is worth interacting with other than Huberts and ?

I think there is a topic for road geeks... elliot park... downtown east... all sorts of things that this is more relevant to.

[Nick]

P2080059 by streetsmn, on Flickr

P2080077 by streetsmn, on Flickr

IMG_8889 by streetsmn, on Flickr

[FISHMANPET]

Today's the first time in a while it's been warm enough to look around while I wait at downtown East for the train. Kind of hard to capture the scale here but it just towers over you.



Sent from my phone

[nfschauer]

Large section of truss going up now, in case someone wants to watch...

[LRV Op Dude]

Looks like another huge crane is being put together.

[nordeast homer]

Looks like another huge crane is being put together.

That red one has moved around the site quite a bit. It had been on the inside for a while.

[IllogicalJake]

Snapped a couple of pictures today. This thing is a beast.