Blue Line Extension - Bottineau LRT

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
mattaudio
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby mattaudio » March 4th, 2015, 9:43 am

#multiwayboulevard

It would be easy to build blockfaces with slip lanes and on-street parking over time, instead of those failed two-way frontage roads.

Also, re: four vs six lanes, the outer lanes are basically worthless during rush hour due to buses stopped in the lane for long periods of time. LRT, coupled with possible aBRT with offboard farepayment, would result in four usable lanes being maintained but two lanes being removed.

MNdible
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby MNdible » March 4th, 2015, 1:03 pm

I give you a lot of grief about preaching for Multiway Boulevards, but this is probably an instance where the ROW and usage patterns actually would make it a good choice.

xanadu
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby xanadu » March 4th, 2015, 11:05 pm

Absolutely agree that turning 55 into a multiway boulevard would be a great option. It's such an ugly road; having a tree-lined, pedestrian-friendly median would be fantastic.

froggie
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby froggie » March 5th, 2015, 7:20 am

Question for such a multiway boulevard is where would you put the transit? In the median? On the outside? There's pros and cons for both.

RailBaronYarr
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby RailBaronYarr » March 5th, 2015, 8:46 am

The lot lines & buildings along this stretch jump all over the place, so it's kinda hard to pick where a proper MWB would go to a) be quasi-urban feeling from day 1, b) be a template for redevelopment, and c) not impact anyone too badly (or at all). That said, the area just east of Van White seems the most restrictive at 210' from lot line to line (though there's a parking buffer to the south and grassy space to the north). I would think using that northern lot line as the future edge of the ROW would be a good start, and do a 160' MWB from there (http://streetmix.net/alexcecchini/89/olsen-memorial-mwb), transit down the middle. 4 lanes of traffic plus slip lanes for parking/bike access.

Given the extreme amount of space available, it's not crazy to entertain separate bike facilities somewhere for another 12'. You could also convince me of an additional dedicated bus lane on the outside for the aBRT and highway buses, but then we're talking close to a 200' ROW, which is a pedestrian barrier (though still a slight improvement over today's design in many places). Something like this.

The first option opens up 50' to the south, oftentimes much more, for turnover to landowners for redevelopment.

As woofner points out, this stretch of highway sees a ridiculously low AADT relative to its size/design - 25-26k west of 94 and down to 10k east of 94. I've seen 4 lane MWBs that handle 35k or more AADT, so this should be no problem, especially if there's any mode shift to the highway bus/LRT/aBRT running around the area (assuming they're all implemented).

mattaudio
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby mattaudio » March 5th, 2015, 9:46 am

your streetmix link is failing for some reason

fehler
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby fehler » March 5th, 2015, 10:13 am

Ugly road? This is a very beautiful road, with wide, green medians and mature trees galore. I wish 55/Hiawatha was as beautiful as this.

grant1simons2
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby grant1simons2 » March 5th, 2015, 10:24 am


mattaudio
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby mattaudio » March 5th, 2015, 10:26 am

I will say, one redeeming characteristic is the mature tree canopy (west of Humboldt)... though it seems like we rip out trees as soon as they mature only to replace them with little twigs.

David Greene
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby David Greene » March 5th, 2015, 10:33 am

Ugly road? This is a very beautiful road, with wide, green medians and mature trees galore. I wish 55/Hiawatha was as beautiful as this.
This. I'm asking because I honestly don't know. Do we really want to cram all that stuff in here or do we want to maintain a wide, green median with some medium-density development along the sides? I'm thinking of something like:

- Return dedicated left turn lanes to the green median
- Square off all corners
- Take a center traffic lane in each direction for LRT/BRT/aBRT (a la WATM)
- Remove the service roads
- Former service roads + adjacent land could be developed
- Station areas could extend into the median to create pocket parks (a la WATM)

You end up with two lanes in each direction which should be plenty. It's mostly what's used now due to the bus issue mentioned above. The above allows for some density while maintaining the pleasant greenspace.

David Greene
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby David Greene » March 5th, 2015, 10:34 am

You literally picked the worst spot to show - a freeway interchange. Head west a bit.

grant1simons2
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby grant1simons2 » March 5th, 2015, 10:34 am

Exactly! Cause this is the closest area to where the station will go.

David Greene
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby David Greene » March 5th, 2015, 10:37 am

The big question is, where does Floyd go?

David Greene
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby David Greene » March 5th, 2015, 10:40 am

Exactly! Cause this is the closest area to where the station will go.
?? The station is nowhere near there. Van White is several blocks west.

Now, Van White needs some love due to the Summit OIC parking lot but problems like that are solvable.

alleycat
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby alleycat » March 5th, 2015, 10:45 am

Actually Grant the stations will be going here at Van White: http://goo.gl/maps/rEK5w

And Penn: http://goo.gl/maps/IB4ji

David, I don't think your idea is that far from RailBaron's multiway boulevard layouts. I'd definitely want to see as many trees maintained as possible.
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up north
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby up north » March 5th, 2015, 10:47 am

Ugly road? This is a very beautiful road, with wide, green medians and mature trees galore. I wish 55/Hiawatha was as beautiful as this.
I actually find Hiawatha fairly attractive, as far as highways go. I love the grain mills and the industrial grit feeling they give.

Olson is bland and pseudo-suburban.

EOst
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby EOst » March 5th, 2015, 10:52 am

Is that big green area south of Penn & Olson park land, or something else? It doesn't show up on the Hennepin County property records at all.

alleycat
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby alleycat » March 5th, 2015, 11:01 am

I don't think it's technically park land. I've never seen someone use it like that. I'm guessing it's MNDOT's land. There was of course a time when this area had a nice commercial hub.
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mulad
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby mulad » March 5th, 2015, 11:09 am

The speed limit along Olson Highway should be reduced in Minneapolis -- it goes up to 40 mph just west of Bryant, which doesn't help walkability at all.

David Greene
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby David Greene » March 5th, 2015, 11:17 am

David, I don't think your idea is that far from RailBaron's multiway boulevard layouts. I'd definitely want to see as many trees maintained as possible.
Oh, maybe I got the wrong streetmix design then. When I went there I got the load error, hit "Try again" and got a streetmix with a < 3 foot median and a bunch of stuff crammed into the ROW. Maybe it was a completely wrong picture.

EDIT: Ah, "Try again" simply brings you to the default page where you can start playing with streets. My bad.


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