City Center

[mnmike]

Yeah, I have said it before, but I really don't mind 33 6th. I wouldn't want any more like it I guess, but it has clean lines and I actually kind of like it:) Good pic!

[acs]

I just can't bring myself to like brutalism, no matter how tall it is...

[grant1simons2]

Hmm.. I wouldn't call this brutalism. Brutalism is much more.... brutal. It has deeper depths and feels darker.

[seanrichardryan]

Since there seems to be some confusion on what is Brutalism, I'll link to this Millenial-friendly Wikipedia page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brutalist_architecture

Also, how bout that 4Marq?

[nstudenski]

Brutalsim makes me think of Moos Tower, which is used as an example on the wikipeda page.

[kiliff75]

Straight from the Wiki page, the Hubert H. Humphrey Building in DC is an example of brutalism...man that guy got shafted if you consider the buildings he was named after! (HHH Metrodome included)

[Nathan]

Yeah city center is too late for brutalism as well and exposed aggregate is completely against its simplicity.

[Record Machine]

I hate City Center so much.

And to think Wells Fargo tower sits just behind it. Ugh.

[TommyT]

Walking by City Center on my way to work, I've noticed that some of the sections aren't the same concrete(?) material but they are a paneled wood wall, some of them look like they are hinged and could be opened as well. Anyone have a clue what these are actually all about?

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.977113, ... e0!6m1!1e1

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.977113, ... e0!6m1!1e1

This is the hinged one I was talking about.
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.977154, ... e0!6m1!1e1

[grant1simons2]

Yes. I've thought about kicking it in or coming by an just taking it off many times.

[seanrichardryan]

They were all windows & doors at one point. Most of the complaints about CC are related to it's vacancy rather than its design. It was once an active place with a strong storefront presence. The 7th Street corner alone had 2 clothing shops, Sam Goody, a Metro Transit store, and a corner entrance to the mall.

[TommyT]

So really, if we could just get these opened up again it might not be SO bad. I also really like the two story corner entrances and have always though that they could have a cool street presence if they were redone correctly. I don't think I was around Minneapolis for any of those stores so I don't recall what they look like.

Edit: MUCH better than what's there now (nothing). the signage could definitely be larger and have a greater impact but not too bad. Here's to hoping for 180 with the redesign by the two anchors.

http://www.lileks.com/mpls/citycenter/2.html

[twincitizen]

Can't imagine why they opted to remove the corner signage and various outdoor banners, etc. especially with the absence of a corner tenant there. They could dress up that corner column too, with a cool lighting scheme, mural-ize it, etc.

Despite being a St. Paul kid (ok, Woodbury) I actually remember seeing (and perhaps entering) that Sam Goody in '98 or '99. It could've been that I was staying at the City Center Marriott (for Youth-in-Government)

I hadn't specifically noticed, but there's quite the little restaurant row across 6th Street from City Center: The Oceanaire, Ike's, Murray's, Lyon's, and Thom Pham's Deceased Azian Kitchen all line that one block.

[John]

They were all windows & doors at one point. Most of the complaints about CC are related to it's vacancy rather than its design. It was once an active place with a strong storefront presence. The 7th Street corner alone had 2 clothing shops, Sam Goody, a Metro Transit store, and a corner entrance to the mall.

Your are probably too young to remember , but those hinged paneled walls along Nicollet Mall etc have existed since it opened in 1983. Yes. the retail was more active in the early years. however, even back then there was a strong public outcry concerning the fortress like design of the whole complex. It was never well received or liked in this community from day one...

[twincitizen]

Can we get a photo of the Nicollet frontage from the early-mid 80s?

[Lancestar2]

I hate City Center so much.

And to think Wells Fargo tower sits just behind it. Ugh.

ugh indeed! they are both so bland, uninspiring, and boring. They make the entire downtown so... so... uninspiring and bland!. It's almost outrageous!

[trkaiser]

Lancer, your comments keep getting further outside of the bell curve. Nobody is saying negative about the Wells Fargo tower.

[Record Machine]

yeah my point was more that instead of that beige lego block, it would be nice to have WF as the centerpiece of the Target Field view, but i digress.

[Wedgeguy]

There would have been something built there blocking that view even if City Center was not built. That block would not have sat empty to this day. Flip a coin as to if what had been built would have been a better or worse design, or a group of towers verse two,(counting the Marriott). As I have said in the past. City Center's design was done from a floor plate economics point, unlike Accenture that was designed from a visual standpoint and had odd floor plates. One could have hoped that when they built CC that they would have spent more on the exterior cladding for a better look. But in the end, CC was built at a time when companies were NOT looking downtown as a place to base their business. Unfortunately the design of this project may have looked good on paper, but in the end, turning it's back to the street actually did more harm to the over all success of the podium and the perceived safety, interior mall design sucked the life out of the center. this was especially true one Donaldson/Carson Pierre Scott closed their store and the city center became a giant maze with no anchor to attract or keep people engaged. The exterior kept people out and made it so shoppers did not know who was in the center. The blank walls on Nicollet,6th and 7th just perpetuated the bunker feel. All is my opinion having lived in MPLS before, during debate and after construction as to the real story about the rise and fall of CC.

Now getting back to the thread at hand. I'm glad to be how the Marq will stand out in the skyline. Looking from Hennepin and Washington at that block. The Nic thankfully blends in too much with the surrounding buildings and does not stick out. The white façade draws your eye to it and makes it the central focal point on that block. Hoping tomorrow to get a better feel of what has been happening as far as progress on several project in and near the core. I look forward to the Xcel's new in fill that will block much of the horrendous short comings of the base and the parking structure of the Marq's back side.

[mnmike]

Unfortunately the design of this project may have looked good on paper, but in the end, turning it's back to the street actually did more harm to the over all success of the podium and the perceived safety, interior mall design sucked the life out of the center. this was especially true one Donaldson/Carson Pierre Scott closed their store and the city center became a giant maze with no anchor to attract or keep people engaged. The exterior kept people out and made it so shoppers did not know who was in the center. The blank walls on Nicollet,6th and 7th just perpetuated the bunker feel. All is my opinion having lived in MPLS before, during debate and after construction as to the real story about the rise and fall of CC.

I know this has gotten off topic...but I really don't think what you said here is true. I think the demise of city center really came along with the demise of retail in downtown in general and other factors (owners not refreshing), and has not been a direct reflection on the design of the building at all. The mall was still going really strong well into the mid to late 90s, when a lot of downtown retail started to go downhill. And as for the anchor, I think it was Montgomery Wards last? That lasted until the last of the Wards stores closed close to 2000. Even after many of the stores left, the (completely interior) food court was going strong, until the new ownership eliminated it. And actually, A lot of the major stores that left the center at the end happened to be stores that were closing completely or restructuring (Structure/Express, B Dalton, Sam Goody), and many of the remaining were kicked out for renovation by the owners in the early 2000's (renovation that was long overdue!) who really didn't do much work to keep it a retail center. When the interior finally was refreshed, it ended up making the mall more dead than it already was! Seriously, before the renovation, even only like 60% full, the place had more energy than it does today, it is very sterile. I don't disagree that if it had more street presence it would do better, and I would like to blame the poor urban design/interaction with the street for the mall's decline, but I really don't think we can here.