DTE: Wells Fargo, Radisson Red, Edition Apts & Millwright Building

[seanrichardryan]

Ha!
But really, Seanjg is on the right track. From the renderings they seem to be proposing a flexible green space like Cincinatti's, hopefully with more than the 8 tourists shown in the photos above. I still worry the proposed park will lack intimacy and adjacent active uses :/

[seanjg]

Daily programming of the space is essential.

www.washingtonpark.org
http://www.cityparksalliance.org/why-ur ... ngton-park

[writruth]

Designers of The Yard should not miss the opportunity to add to the tennis and soccer infrastructure in the heart of The City. I'd love to see at least 8-10 lighted tennis courts included in a section of the park. The courts should be open to the public and should have a computerized on-line reservation system, modeled after Santa Monica's Reed Courts. There could also be a small pro-shop/reservations office adjacent to the courts and a nominal fee $10/hour could be charged to players interested in renting the courts which would go to pay for upkeep of the courts and a small maintenance and security staff.

There should also be space, markings and goalposts for city league amateur soccer. The central location, on the LRT line, would make this a visible hub of regional outdoor soccer. Summer leagues from around the Twin Cities would have a central site for weekly league games and tournament play. Area schools could also have access for training and league sports. The proximity to The U's West Bank, Augsburg, St. Thomas, and TCMC would likely ensure there be enough soccer and tennis fans to keep the fields and courts busy seasonally.

[trkaiser]

8-10 tennis courts? That's a lot of space for one thing ... and do people play tennis? If so, I don't see any evidence of it.

[trkaiser]

On a different note - here's a F&C story, summarized by the Business Journal, about Ryan's eventual full build-out of this site:

"That's the gist of a Finance & Commerce report that details city documents that give a “maximum development scenario” for Ryan's plan. On top of the 1.1 million square feet of office space and hundreds of rental units (and a big park) already mapped out on land currently filled by parking lots and the Star Tribune building, the full-bore plan would add another 1.4 million square feet of office space and a 150-room hotel."

http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/m ... t-may.html

[min-chi-cbus]

So IOW....oh by the way, we MIGHT double the size of our development.......that's cool, right?

It's certainly cool with me, but why so glib and back-handed? Here's to hoping that additional 1.4M SF is all in one building.....ideally one with a relatively small footprint! I honestly don't understand the hotel part though -- why (only) 150 rooms? It seems to be such a small scale and out of concert with everything else "big" in this proposal. Also, and unless there's something going on that I don't know about (almost 100% possible), couldn't our market afford to absorb a lot more than 150 rooms, or does Ryan know something we don't about our hotel market (I'm hinting at the notion that another developer is going bigger with hotels)? OR, perhaps it's because this is in DTE, and there's little reason to park yourself there compared to other parts of downtown. Or at least, there WAS little reason....

Big news though, and this should continue to fan the urbanmsp flames of speculation for quite a while!!!

[go4guy]

Instead of using park space for soccer fields or tennis courts, why not place those on the top of the parking ramps? During the NBA Finals, whenever the game is in Miami, they show a scene where on top of a parking garage, there is a soccer field amongst the towers surrounding it. I think that would be a great use of space. And then they can use the space for tailgating on game days. Thoughts?

[Didier]

Athletic fields are tricky, and I tend to think tennis courts use up too much space for a relatively unpopular activity that at maximum can have four participants at a time. The one benefit of having a soccer field is it could be converted into ice rinks in the winter using adjustable boards. Given how difficult it is to find ice time you'd think they would have little trouble selling access to an outdoor hockey rink in the heart of downtown to a rec league and special occasions for youth teams and other events.

[nordeast homer]

I believe tennis and soccer are poor excuses for a distraction from drinking beer and should be banned from public areas. Let's build some horseshoe pitches and disc golf courses.
Back to the subject at hand; it sounded to me like the additional square footage would be on more than one site, sorry to burst your bubble. As for the hotel, someting of that size being surrounded by that much square footage sounds almost like an afterthought, though I haven't seen vacancy rates at the Holiday Inn, Depot, or Aloft. Maybe they are also taking into account the new hotel to go up near the Old Spaghetti Factory.

[Rich]

"The maximum development scenario calls for 2.9 million square feet of office space, 335 residential units, or 275 residential units and a 150-room hotel, 105,000 square feet of retail and 2,725 parking spaces."

http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikin ... 93681.html

[writruth]

The plan to possibly double the size of the Ryan development and the timing of this story is very strange, given that Wells Fargo has yet to publicly sign on to the original plan. As it appears now, Ryan, has won the rights to build the large parking ramp. But why the continued hesitance on Wells Fargo's part to come forward and confirm it's involvement?

Doubling the size of this development would bring much desired density to DTE but there needs to be a lot more detail on this proposal. Would this need to be done in phases or constructed all at once and ready by 2016. Sounds vaguely ambitious. And I too think a 150-room hotel nearby is way too skimpy. This is an area at the nexus of the stadium, The Guthrie, and West Bank of the University of Minnesota - a heavy traffic area, along the Washington Avenue corridor that likely could support a 1000-1200-room hotel tower.

[shaqwn]

The team that designed the high line in New York is designing a series of parks in Santa Monica similar in size and scope to the downtown east park (roughly 7 acres adjacent to the heart of their downtown). Seems like a nice combination of climate appropriate design and active/curated spaces, serving a connective function (and turning acres of parking lots into a recreational and cultural amenity). It also has some unconventional elements and doesn't look and feel like a town-square from 100 years ago.

http://www.smciviccenterparks.com/desig ... rden-walk/

This same team, by the way, is also participating in the RFQ for the Nicollet Mall.

[Avian]

Well, if Ryan's ultimate plan is to add 1.4 m sq. ft. of office, and the only plot of land they have reserved in this grand scheme is the west 1/3 of the western block of the park (i.e. across the street from the jail), then that pretty much guarantees a tall building.

[matt91486]

Tennis courts aren't exactly overused places (I've never had a problem getting one in Northeast Minneapolis), so I tend to think that won't be the most efficient use of limited downtown parkland. I can see the arguments for soccer fields more, but at the same time, I don't think that many people are really going to take the train into use the park there for that purpose when neighborhood parks can generally meet that need. And at this point, I don't think Downtown East really has the need for several soccer fields for existing/planned residents.

[FISHMANPET]

Are we really expecting people to come from around the city to this park? I sure hope not. It seems like a local park for the surrounding neighborhood. If I was going to get on a train to go to a park I'd go to Minnehaha Falls.

[MS3]

Now we're talking.

[Andrew_F]

Well, if Ryan's ultimate plan is to add 1.4 m sq. ft. of office, and the only plot of land they have reserved in this grand scheme is the west 1/3 of the western block of the park (i.e. across the street from the jail), then that pretty much guarantees a tall building.

Don't forget the possibility of building something atop the parking ramp, since they are retaining development rights.

[min-chi-cbus]

I believe tennis and soccer are poor excuses for a distraction from drinking beer and should be banned from public areas. Let's build some horseshoe pitches and disc golf courses.
Back to the subject at hand; it sounded to me like the additional square footage would be on more than one site, sorry to burst your bubble. As for the hotel, someting of that size being surrounded by that much square footage sounds almost like an afterthought, though I haven't seen vacancy rates at the Holiday Inn, Depot, or Aloft. Maybe they are also taking into account the new hotel to go up near the Old Spaghetti Factory.

Per this comment, I don't think that the only space we're talking about is 1/3 of a block (I already made that assumption earlier and this was the reply).

[woofner]

Are we really expecting people to come from around the city to this park? I sure hope not. It seems like a local park for the surrounding neighborhood. If I was going to get on a train to go to a park I'd go to Minnehaha Falls.

I think you're hitting on an interesting tension that this park will have to bear. Certainly people (I mean real people like politicians and developers in addition to us) are talking about it as though it will be a showcase park, and given its high-profile location it probably will be at least for 12 games a year. But realistically due to its size and somewhat also due to its location (featureless land in the center of a grid) it won't compete for regional popularity even with its neighbor the riverfront. Given the dead use that will likely be at its east end at least, if not its south and west ends, it won't even be inherently as popular as Elliot Park, which is in the heart of an organically grown neighborhood.

So something that is going to be a niche regional attraction actually makes sense to me, like a really good skate park. If done well, it could bring in some use for most of the year, but will still look good as a foreground to People's Crystal Cathedral. An interactive fountain might work too (as long as they start playing football after June 1st). I think something like a squished Gene Leahy Mall from Omaha would be cool, with the banks lined with a skate park, a playground with slides into the water, some gardens and more passive uses, and they could use the pond for skating in the winter, just to name one idea that would cost 5x more than they're going to end up spending and won't allow people to stand around and drink beer.

[John]

In order for this park to be consistently bustling with human activity, the area surrounding it is going to need much more intense development than just the Stadium and Ryan's project. The Armory, for example,should really be developed into a regional attraction (a combination of new Farmer's Market with larger version of Midtown Market, entertainment venues) , and more housing, hotels, etc is needed, especially on the blocks south of the park. It's really going to take multiple layers of diverse, but very dense urban development around it to create that "critical mass" it needs to be successful.