urbanMSP

If we didn't have empty storefronts and spaces that haven't been filled in the core for a long time there might be a point but it isn't like downtown is busting it's seams just waiting to expand into DTE. Also having things that bring people to downtown is a good thing because apparently retail isn't getting it done while having to co0mpete with the MOA.

Very near that area is a new condo/apartment area. Parks and fields for recreational use seems like a VERY good idea. In fact the people of that neighborhood and their leaders wanted to turn the entire space into a lake and park if the vikings vacated Minneapolis.

A soccer or football field occupying block(s) in downtown is not the highest and best use regardless of if there's tailgating there 10x a year.

As I said in the "What will it take to develop DTE?" thread, I find it ironic that people there are proposing irregular parks while people here are deriding the public/tailgating space.

The "gameday plaza" used for tailgating and this public 365-day space can and should be the same thing. Just because it's used for tailgating on fall weekends doesn't mean it can't be used for anything else.

A soccer or football field occupying block(s) in downtown is not the highest and best use regardless of if there's tailgating there 10x a year.

Soccer and football fields are not even possible uses on any block in this part of downtown, as they physically will not fit. A city block is about 400 feet on center. About 80 feet is roadway and sidewalks on both sides. This leaves about 320 feet for grass.

The average soccer field length is 115 yards, or 345 feet. (FIFA: 110-120yds)
A football field is 100yd plus two 10yd end zones. 120yd = 360 feet.

And this doesn't even consider any boundary around the field, just to the chalk lines.

Nah. It will be something like what is at Currie Park.

https://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-8&c ... IoBEPwSMAA

I just don't see how the type of park DTE needs is congruent with tailgating uses. Can you imagine tailgating in Rice Park, Mears Park, Gold Medal, etc?

Clearly an emphasis — or at least many of us hope — is that the tailgating setup at the new stadium is less car centric than what we currently have. In that case, a larger version of Rice Park would definitely be viable.

Pedgating? Cyclegating? LRTgating?

Clearly an emphasis — or at least many of us hope — is that the tailgating setup at the new stadium is less car centric than what we currently have. In that case, a larger version of Rice Park would definitely be viable.

The Vikings released that stadium plan map on the day they announced a deal with Minneapolis to build on the dome site. At the time they were concerned about losing the support of all the folks who were geeked about Arden Hills and it's massive parking lots. So they told their illustrator to use the word "tailgating" on one of the blocks adjacent to the stadium. But in reality they have no intention of providing tailgating space of any kind. There will be multiple parking ramps and a multipurpose plaza designed for year-round use.

Edit: double post

Would the Vikings even own the space around the stadium on the Minneapolis site? If there was a surface parking lot there, who would get the revenues from tailgating?

One thing I'd like to add is that tailgating will still go on, whether they designate a space or not, because the area is scarred with surface lots that won't all get developed at once. This is a good reason to not designate surface lots, let the market decide if it's worth it to keep a block or two vacant or if it's better to just develop it. Eventually I would hope that all the surface lots get developed and tailgating would be phased out or reinvented. (Yes, bikegating, trailgating at the park and rides, or just plain old supporting local restaurants and bars in the area.)

Another option would be to designate certain roads surrounding the stadium for tailgating. Allow the cars to park diagonally and turn a street into a pedestrian mall, which is essentially is anyway. Certain areas of 4th St. could do this right now for Vikings games and hardly cause traffic problems.

Another option would be to designate certain roads surrounding the stadium for tailgating. Allow the cars to park diagonally and turn a street into a pedestrian mall, which is essentially is anyway. Certain areas of 4th St. could do this right now for Vikings games and hardly cause traffic problems.

I really like this idea. Great way to appease those addicted to cars, brats, and beer in an urban setting without disrupting the urban fabric for the 355 days of the year when there's no NFL there.

Another option would be to designate certain roads surrounding the stadium for tailgating. Allow the cars to park diagonally and turn a street into a pedestrian mall, which is essentially is anyway. Certain areas of 4th St. could do this right now for Vikings games and hardly cause traffic problems.

I really like this idea. Great way to appease those addicted to cars, brats, and beer in an urban setting without disrupting the urban fabric for the 355 days of the year when there's no NFL there.

Oooooooookay......

I like the idea too... seems like a win win.

I love that idea. If parallel or diagonal parking were allowed I could see any fairly open block of green space as just fine for tailgating. However, owners of the lots will want to charge as much as they can and permission to close off, charge admission, and to have alcohol on roadways might be deal breakers unless all parties can agree how enable that.

MSFA issued an RFP for architectural services. Proposals are due at the end of the month.

http://www.msfc.com/content/Architectur ... 202012.pdf

The work will include, among other things, a "[f]acade and window wall consultant" and "[e]xperiential and environmental graphics"

Interesting. They also want preliminary designs to "include an operable roof or other element to allow for open air events". So their choice of architect will hinge at least partially on how the question of retractability is addressed. Also they want to "optimize suite distribution to minimize distance to field and overall venue height." Are they keen on keeping this stadium low-slung or is that just standard language?

Populous is probably the front-running architect, right? Maybe we'll end up with something along these lines: http://populous.com/project/sochi-2014/

that's very cool. anything other than a rehash of indianapolis.