urbanMSP

Just stumbled onto this project. Dated 2012. http://www.tmarch.com/2012

How far "off the ground" did this one get? Would've of been a very dramatic project for St. Paul

I think this went away with the recession. I wish something like this would have been developed, but I don't know who would fill it. I'm not sure if there are any reports available of St. Paul companies looking to add space. Most of what I've seen is Mpls. Hopefully, we could begin to see more. I believe US Bank just re-upped their space in St. Paul for another 10 years, but unsure of the rest of downtown employers.

Can anything in downtown StP be that tall with the nearby airport? I hope this can be kept for when the market reignites. Nice signature look and repair of access to the river.

The man behind that proposal was Dean Johnson of Wingfield. A St. Paul native who had lived in Belguim for a long time. Not only did he offer a vision for redeveloping the
West Publish/Jail site, but he also offered a proposal for Wabasha Court. When the real estate crash hit in 2008, he pretty much disappeared.

Here is the page for the Wabasha Court development by the architect David Adjaye:

http://www.wingfieldgroup.eu/en/project ... nesota.php
http://i44.tinypic.com/dg32x5.jpg

It probably would have been one of the more interesting building in the Twin Cities.

As far as the West Publishing/Jail site, even if he had all his ducks in a row, he would still not have been given the nod. As noted at the time, Mayor Chris Coleman was determined to give the redevelopment rights to his good friends at Opus. Here is their proposal:

http://i39.tinypic.com/slmws3.jpg
The Wingfield proposal page: http://www.wingfieldgroup.eu/en/project ... stpaul.php

The thought that he could put up three skyscrapers on the site was never realistic, but I'd take one of them compared to the on design that Coleman backed.

So Dean Johnson was in over his head, but why can't local developers (e.g. Opus, Ryan...) hire architects that create interesting proposals?

Wow nothing says "go riverfront" like a parking helix (Opus pic).

Downtown needs more visually appealing skyscrapers. It's no wonder that Saint Paul has such a poor, vacant CBD in comparison to Minneapolis. I recently spent the day in the Wells Fargo Center in Minneapolis, and what struck me is that just having a view of other attractive buildings is a status symbol; one that is very much a necessity for any business that can afford a downtown office. However, in order to be able to put up new, attractive buildings, they need a high demand for office space there, otherwise there simply won't be the incentive for developers to build attractive spaces. What a catch-22!

Hmm... I think that active ground-floor uses do more to enliven a CBD than do tall skyscrapers, but there certainly is some interplay there. The biggest problem with a CBD, from a livability standpoint, that is entirely dominated by skyscrapers is the inevitable deadening that occurs when the office workers leave at 5pm.

Damn, that would be amazing :/ The opus version is a snoozer though, more of the same, terrible appeal from the river.

Downtown needs more visually appealing skyscrapers. It's no wonder that Saint Paul has such a poor, vacant CBD in comparison to Minneapolis. I recently spent the day in the Wells Fargo Center in Minneapolis, and what struck me is that just having a view of other attractive buildings is a status symbol; one that is very much a necessity for any business that can afford a downtown office. However, in order to be able to put up new, attractive buildings, they need a high demand for office space there, otherwise there simply won't be the incentive for developers to build attractive spaces. What a catch-22!

I disagree. The metro area isn't big enough to support two large CBDs, and Minneapolis became THE center of business in the region sometime in the 1950s, if not earlier. Most of the ugly skyscrapers in St Paul were built in a shortsighted attempt to compete on Minneapolis' terms, which will always be a losing proposition for St Paul.

That doesn't mean that DT St Paul can't be an interesting, livable, walkable, mixed-use area with downtown-like characteristics. I work down there and I actually like it -- it's not Minneapolis, but it doesn't have to be.

I'd argue that the path St. Paul on -- residential development of peripheral surface lots, conversion of obsolete office space to residential space, rail transit connections to the rest of the metro, better use of the riverfront, and so forth -- is far healthier and more sustainable than another skyscraper or group of them would be.

^Bingo.

In fact, I would go as far to say that in terms of walkability and street-level architecture, the trees/flowers/planters/historic architecture found all over downtown St Paul far outshines the rather barren streets of downtown Minneapolis (outside of Nicollet).

At40 the problem with Minneapolis was that it was built and designed in an era when nobody lived in Minnepolis. What I mean, many people moved out to the suburbs, but worked downtown. There came the existence of massive buildings with surface parking lots and extra wide, less city feel type streets. The ones st.paul has. BUT the apartment construction downtown now has a mix of office, retail, and residential like any downtown should have. Thus, in short time, we should see a reversal from "barren" streets, to alive ones.

^Bingo.

In fact, I would go as far to say that in terms of walkability and street-level architecture, the trees/flowers/planters/historic architecture found all over downtown St Paul far outshines the rather barren streets of downtown Minneapolis (outside of Nicollet).

I do agree that a good chunk of downtown St Paul has very interesting architecture and nice greenspace, like the landmark center area (that is fantastic). But, last time I was there on the buses, some of it just felt bland and depressing. Perhaps just a redo of a few blocks could go a long way.

Apparently, this project just came back to life.

Unfortunately, Ortega gives a thumbs up to the banal Opus design:

"In recent weeks, the last remaining county employees moved out of the West Publishing building. The Ramsey County Board of Commissioners is expected to revisit a vote it took in 2007 to demolish both buildings, said Commissioner Rafael Ortega. "Part of the rationale was that it's very costly to mothball a building of that size," he said.

Ortega says he liked Opus' plan, which involved a new hotel and condominiums."

http://www.twincities.com/stpaul/ci_239 ... growth-and

^Bingo.

In fact, I would go as far to say that in terms of walkability and street-level architecture, the trees/flowers/planters/historic architecture found all over downtown St Paul far outshines the rather barren streets of downtown Minneapolis (outside of Nicollet).

I do agree that a good chunk of downtown St Paul has very interesting architecture and nice greenspace, like the landmark center area (that is fantastic). But, last time I was there on the buses, some of it just felt bland and depressing. Perhaps just a redo of a few blocks could go a long way.

There are a few blocks in the CBD that are depressing - specifically, Macy's and the Town Square complex. Those two buildings were just plopped in the middle of downtown, without any care for their surroundings and do a terrible job of bridging the Lowertown area with the Landmark area. However, I really do like the redo of the street-level around Alliance Bank Center. The new facade really is an improvement over the rusty metal panels that had been there. Town Square's exterior was ugly when it was built, and has only gotten worse with age. Too bad the only redeeming feature of the building (Town Square Park) is too costly to operate.

Minneapolis has their own version of the hideous Town Square bunker in City Center, far too many surface lots, and lack of accessible city parks within walking distance. (as much as I love Peavey Plaza, it sure would be nice to have something like Mears or Rice Park in the heart of Mpls!)

Town square was design from the inside out, with little regard for the street presence. It is another retail, build it and they will come, that did not happen as envisioned. You make a bunker and people will not want to go into it.

The biggest mistake the City of St Paul made was allowing 7th street to be closed thru Downtown. It totally disrupted traffic flow thru DT. Before Town Square was built the southern half 7th between Minneaota and Cedar was dubbed the "superhole" for years and was a source of civic embarrassment. The city was deperate for anything to go in there which among other things led to the closing of 7th and the development of Town Square. BTW there used to be White Castle on 7th. As for the lost project site can't see anything going in there other then residential.

Demolition news on the vacant Ramsey County property along Kellogg. Really nothing worth saving here and might generate some new ideas on its future use.

http://www.twincities.com/stpaul/ci_240 ... ul-offices