TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
at40man
Rice Park
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TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Postby at40man » September 9th, 2013, 8:41 am

Is it just me, or is this atrium vastly under-utilized? I can't remember the last time I saw the fountain running.

It's a nice space - but it feels a bit closed in with those archways walled-off without even any windows. It seems like it would make a really nice banking hall. Or they could put some tables/chairs/plants down there.

I'm not a fan of the TCF Tower in general, but it seems to me that the atrium is the one nice point in an otherwise drab building. Letting it just sit there with a dead fountain doesn't exactly make me think positive things about TCF -- why would I want to do business with an institution that can't even keep a water fountain running?

Nordeastmpls
City Center
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Re: TCF Tower atrium

Postby Nordeastmpls » September 9th, 2013, 8:51 am

I just hate this entire building in general

retiredbanker
City Center
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Re: TCF Tower atrium

Postby retiredbanker » September 9th, 2013, 11:07 am

@ at40man, I would agree with you, the TCF atrium is under-utilized, needs some life to it. Perhaps the renovation will be when the block south of the Campbell Mithun tower gets developed, creating more traffic flow through the building. And @ Matt Steele, you mentioned a "1000-footer" in singular terms (maybe you're referring to the old Ryan Co. proposal for that site), I would prefer to use the 1000-footer in plural terms. Depending on final designs, the probability of multiple tall towers is "highly likely." As quoted previous on this site, building super-structures are very complex, a developer/financier can't afford to make a mistake on design/construction. A person also needs to keep in mind, a super tall tower doesn't need large floor plates, which is the case of several of the designs I'm well-acquainted with concerning downtown Minneapolis. There is w/o question, developers who are looking to reach-for-the-sky in Minneapolis. Without naming names, I was in discussion with a major investor this past May about a particular situation his firm was involved with. He later asked my opinion about a proposal that his firm is in the conceptual stage of, after stating my thoughts, he kept saying "taller", I again gave him another opinion, he said, "taller, yet." The person finally stated what he was thinking of concerning design/size/height and it floored me. If the firm is serious about that development which I believe they are, dynamics will change dramatically downtown, considering financing will not be an issue. Patience is a requirement on major development, in my humble opinion, downtown Minneapolis development is only in Stage/Phase I. Downtown is in for a "very long" period of development over a period of decades.

uptown067
Metrodome
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Re: TCF Tower atrium

Postby uptown067 » September 9th, 2013, 5:29 pm

My money is on US Bank as the lead tennant, or perhaps Thomson Reuters.

at40man
Rice Park
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Re: TCF Tower atrium

Postby at40man » September 9th, 2013, 8:32 pm

Thomson Reuters has their offices in a nice new facility in Eagan - I don't see them desiring a presence in downtown Minneapolis - it doesn't make sense. Plus, the ties to St Paul are still fairly strong; they are currently leasing space in downtown St Paul despite their Eagan office.

I used to work for a company which had all of its offices in Arden Hills. Despite the fact that the company had constructed a beautiful and fancy new campus next to Cummings Park that had more than enough room - the CEO that came in a few short years after the new buildings were constructed decided that he wanted to be in downtown Minneapolis. So he uprooted half the staff to Minneapolis. All this served to do was drive a wedge between sales and operations. Communication and unity were lost, as was the energy of the fancy new campus in Arden Hills. I should also mention that it was a failed experiment - the company has gone through a few rounds of layoffs, moved the headquarters to Silicon Valley, and consolidated the remaining staff to Roseville. Massive fail.

ANYHOW - TCF Tower's atrium... fix 'er up! They redid the skyway areas a few years ago, it is somewhat surprising that they didn't bother touching the atrium as part of this renovation.

TroyGBiv
Target Field
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Re: TCF Tower atrium

Postby TroyGBiv » September 9th, 2013, 9:52 pm

We are seeing super talls around the world actually being more speculative than expected (The Shard, anything in Dubai, etc) as the economy gains momentum investor confidence with increase and loosen some of the criteria for developers. The big issue for any tower in Minneapolis - especially super talls - is great architecture and prominence drives corporate desire to locate or relocate to those prestigious addresses. Mediocre structures lose market value and price per square foot (depreciation) fast and many of those buildings become invisible. I worked for Target in the mid to late 90's and Brookfield wanted to offer the naming rights in exchange for a longer term lease but the executives at Target had no interest in putting a bullseye on that ugly building. Looks at the truly beautiful addresses and you will see after 10, 20 30 40 years they are still the top draw. So much so that lots of smaller tenants fill up most of the small footprints left unrented.

bubzki2
US Bank Plaza
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Re: TCF Tower atrium

Postby bubzki2 » October 23rd, 2013, 7:51 am

I work in this building and I've also noticed that the atrium is a totally wasted space, at current. It's about as uninviting as imaginable. The "fountain" is completely dry, and the only place to even sit down in here is on the low brick berm surrounding said dry fountain. I was just mentioning the other day that it's a real wasted space and even make the W look a bit more derelict than it really is, from this side.

The archways should be opened up an probably a restaurant move in. It's got natural light and a nice high ceiling and it's also an access point from ground to skyway level, with good visibility. This and the large number of lunch-going employees in and around this building would make something like a Chipotle or similar a boon in this space.

Wedgeguy
Capella Tower
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Re: TCF Tower atrium

Postby Wedgeguy » October 23rd, 2013, 8:08 am

Walked though there the other day and you are right. The fountain is bust, you'd think that a nuclear bomb went off and there are no people left alive. I would agree with you on it would be in the W's best interest to see that area become something more inviting as it will be a major entrance to their property. Kinda like having to walk across a broken up weed filled parking lot to get to a luxury hotel. Not very inviting.

seanrichardryan
Capella Tower
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Re: TCF Tower atrium

Postby seanrichardryan » October 23rd, 2013, 8:08 am

Maybe they could renovate it to look like this again- http://collections.mnhs.org/cms/web5/me ... &width=640 :)
Q. What, what? A. In da butt.

bubzki2
US Bank Plaza
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Re: TCF Tower atrium

Postby bubzki2 » October 23rd, 2013, 8:22 am

seanrichardryan wrote:Maybe they could renovate it to look like this again- http://collections.mnhs.org/cms/web5/me ... &width=640 :)
Well, that would certainly mix things up around here... but seriously, even just some tables and chairs and like a Zen garden in the fountain space. It wouldn't take much. However, I think CBRE and Ryan are mostly focused on the serious tower elevator renovations and the concrete work being done above the second floor right now. After that, maybe I'll write them a polite letter.

Wedgeguy
Capella Tower
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Re: TCF Tower atrium

Postby Wedgeguy » October 23rd, 2013, 10:30 am

seanrichardryan wrote:Maybe they could renovate it to look like this again- http://collections.mnhs.org/cms/web5/me ... &width=640 :)
That pic was an outdoor courtyard for the Foshey Tower. Not sure if they even share the same actual space or not. I believe that space was a lot larger and was destroyed when they build the TCF Towers over part of that courtyard.

seanrichardryan
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Re: TCF Tower atrium

Postby seanrichardryan » October 23rd, 2013, 3:57 pm

Wedgeguy wrote:
That pic was an outdoor courtyard for the Foshey Tower. Not sure if they even share the same actual space or not. I believe that space was a lot larger and was destroyed when they build the TCF Towers over part of that courtyard.
Yes, they shared roughly the same space. Twin City Financial plopped a big brown turd on top of it. :P
Q. What, what? A. In da butt.

lordmoke
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: TCF Tower atrium

Postby lordmoke » October 23rd, 2013, 4:03 pm

I will never understand why or how TCF got the go ahead to demolish half of the Foshay's podium. Does anyone have more info on this?

Wedgeguy
Capella Tower
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Re: TCF Tower atrium

Postby Wedgeguy » October 23rd, 2013, 6:57 pm

lordmoke wrote:I will never understand why or how TCF got the go ahead to demolish half of the Foshay's podium. Does anyone have more info on this?
I do not believe that the courtyard was part of the podium. IT was an open area next to the Foshey that at the time it was built probably got a decent amount of light. IT was an outdoor patio for the summer months. Just as we are now getting to know the outdoors again. The area probably lost favor to air conditioned space in the pre and post war period and was not used to it potential. Thus the best use to maximize the land's value was to become part of the rent producing building, which at this point it is not.

bubzki2
US Bank Plaza
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Re: TCF Tower atrium

Postby bubzki2 » December 11th, 2013, 2:51 pm

Could http://www.startribune.com/business/235430371.html explain why the atrium and lobby have been so unloved? Perhaps we're going to see a major renovation for this building?

Wedgeguy
Capella Tower
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Re: TCF Tower atrium

Postby Wedgeguy » December 11th, 2013, 3:59 pm

Ouch, That is going to hurt that building for sure. But it makes sense as they have a much more visible branch in the IDS center on the skyway.. The 801 location is very much out of the way and you kind of need to know where you are going to get down to that location. Will be another vacant street door for Marquette.

This building need a major over haul or redevelopment.

John
Capella Tower
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Re: TCF Tower atrium

Postby John » December 11th, 2013, 6:36 pm

^^^Would make a great renovation project like 510 Marquette.

mattaudio
Stone Arch Bridge
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Re: TCF Tower atrium

Postby mattaudio » December 11th, 2013, 9:48 pm

It seems odd that they seemed to shed leases, and 37 in the Chicago market. Merging with a Chicago bank would be my guess... maybe BMO Harris? I doubt they could get picked up by Chase.

TroyGBiv
Target Field
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Re: TCF Tower atrium

Postby TroyGBiv » December 14th, 2013, 3:43 am

At one point I was told that Chase Banking was going to move into our market and that TCF was the most likely acquisition. That information was from a banking insider that I knew through AMEX and Ameriprise… haven't heard anything since...

Minneboy
US Bank Plaza
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Joined: January 15th, 2013, 1:18 pm

Re: TCF Tower atrium

Postby Minneboy » December 14th, 2013, 5:57 am

TroyGBiv wrote:At one point I was told that Chase Banking was going to move into our market and that TCF was the most likely acquisition. That information was from a banking insider that I knew through AMEX and Ameriprise… haven't heard anything since...
Then they need a new tower to go along with that. ;) One could hope.


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