Forum Etiquette

[David Greene]

But beyond that, you're not understanding my point (probably my fault). This forum is what it is and is run the way its run. Some people like it and some don't. Some enjoy the ribbing and the jokes and some don't. If people don't want to participate -- no problem -- but I don't understand the lobbying of Nick to turn this place into something else or "change the culture." Maybe not everyone thinks the culture needs changing.

That's fair enough. If it is what most people want it's not going to change. I'll probably stay here regardless.

I love a good ribbing, but only when it comes from someone I've built a relationship with. There's a huge difference between a teasing from a friend and a teasing from a complete stranger.

I probably was too strong with my words. Let me try to rephrase. I like the culture here in the sense that it's a group of people generally comfortable with some ribbing and have good discussions. I think it's more a matter of judiciously using that culture. Try not to be harsh to newcomers. As they get acclimated, they'll get more comfortable being a target of some joking. Really, it just boils down to understanding boundaries of relationships and being kind.

[David Greene]

At least you explained the process of why the seasoning is important. Hell, I learned from that conversation. That's a useful conversation. When we could've just PMed the guy and said "You do cooking wrong and your posts are annoying."

That's a great example. I too cringed when I saw the post about clean cast-iron cookware. I appreciated those who took the effort to explain why it was wrong instead of just telling the poster they're stupid.

[David Greene]

Is this why SSC says we're mean, because we challenge ideas?

No, I don't think so. It's the way those challenges are formulated. There's a big difference between, "that's a stupid opinion" and, "I don't agree with that and here's why." We're on the internet but there are real people at the ends of the tubes. I agree that in face-to-face conversation people challenge ideas. But people also tend to be a lot more respectful face-to-face. That's what we all should strive for.

Heck, you and I have debated strongly more than once. Sometimes I get mad in the moment. But in the end I know you bring a lot to the conversation and I learn things from you. So I definitely understand and appreciate your desire for learning through debate.

[FISHMANPET]

There's a lot of nuance lost without face to face contact, so it's very easy misconstrue meaning, which is why I try and pretend that I'm going to interpret a message in the most positive way possible, but actually I'll do the opposite and foam at the mouth whenever someone disagrees with me because how could they be so stupid, and on the internet no less! but the more rational side of my brain tries to beat that lizard back where it belongs.

Likewise I don't try and be an asshole, but apparently I frequently come off as one. It's hard to accept a message in the spirit it was given in, rather than the spirit in which it was received.

[David Greene]

Sorry about the multiple postings but some of this has been building up in me for a while.

One thing that has really helped me in understanding people here is connecting outside the forum. Not necessarily IRL, even. I friended a few of you on Facebook and we've had interesting discussions there. It gives me a better understanding of the whole person to see them in different contexts. I've seen some of you at open houses and other such things and it's great to be able to put a face to a username.

I still really like the idea of an Urban/SSC meetup. Maybe the hoax is the catalyst but I would just appreciate a chance to get to know people better.

[FISHMANPET]

Are there any young eligible bachelor/bachelorettes from each forum we could marry off to join the two and end the feud?

[FISHMANPET]

We're on the internet but there are real people at the ends of the tubes.

THe totally not serious side of me wants to respond with "speak for yourself meat sack, I'm bits and bytes all the way through."
E: because I am a computer and not a person and to me all human beings are meat sacks, not saying anything about you specifically.

[MN Fats]

Negative. I am a meat popsicle.

[TommyT]

I've kind of been following this, really hoping it would stop... but it's time.

[IllogicalJake]

I just hope all of our productive thought and debate isn't just lost to "Man, this thread huh?" and a lock.

[Viktor Vaughn]

I know these aren't in response to me, but who said arguing is bad? I'm just confused how it became the topic. I'm here because I love the debate-heavy atmosphere myself. Nobody I know personally said they're gone because people argue with them too much...

Some take argument as criticism. When lurking on that other forum I've repeatedly heard folks bitch about being criticized on here for holding certain opinions, poor spelling (niccolet...errr), or the way they wash their cookware. They didn’t expect the reaction they got and they feel specially victimized. But it's not about them. It's just the free exchange of ideas.

[MN Fats]

I know these aren't in response to me, but who said arguing is bad? I'm just confused how it became the topic. I'm here because I love the debate-heavy atmosphere myself. Nobody I know personally said they're gone because people argue with them too much...

Some take argument as criticism. When lurking on that other forum I've repeatedly heard folks bitch about being criticized on here for holding certain opinions, poor spelling (niccolet...errr), or the way they wash their cookware. They didn’t expect the reaction they got and they feel specially victimized. But it's not about them. It's just the free exchange of ideas.

Pretty much. To me this thread has just devolved into a bunch of people whining. Sorry, just being honest.

[TTT]

I was hoping to log on today to the Rumors tab and hear that a malevolent international internet ring had been busted for hoaxing Commercial Real Estate threads about potential new skyscrapers and released were names and photos of the suspects involved... that didn't happen...

[MNdible]

I'd say hand-wringing, not whining. It's a lot of well-intentioned people worried about a lot of other people's hurt feelings.

I certainly don't want to scare off new-comers. On the other hand, sometimes it's clearly not a good fit. Some people will be happier somewhere else, and that's just the way it's going to be. If their feelings get hurt unnecessarily, that's too bad (really, it is). But I bet they'll get over it.

[IllogicalJake]

I know these aren't in response to me, but who said arguing is bad? I'm just confused how it became the topic. I'm here because I love the debate-heavy atmosphere myself. Nobody I know personally said they're gone because people argue with them too much...

Some take argument as criticism. When lurking on that other forum I've repeatedly heard folks bitch about being criticized on here for holding certain opinions, poor spelling (niccolet...errr), or the way they wash their cookware. They didn’t expect the reaction they got and they feel specially victimized. But it's not about them. It's just the free exchange of ideas.

Pretty much. To me this thread has just devolved into a bunch of people whining. Sorry, just being honest.

Because this is the place where someone will post just to say "You sound whiney" without adding anything to the discussion. Like this. You could have said "I don't think this is a productive use of our time because XYZ."

You guys never stop think that maybe sometimes arguments ARE needlessly insulting? That professionals can freely exchange ideas without calling someone whiney and ending it there?

[IllogicalJake]

I'd say hand-wringing, not whining. It's a lot of well-intentioned people worried about a lot of other people's hurt feelings.

I certainly don't want to scare off new-comers. On the other hand, sometimes it's clearly not a good fit. Some people will be happier somewhere else, and that's just the way it's going to be. If their feelings get hurt unnecessarily, that's too bad (really, it is). But I bet they'll get over it.

Sure. But let that person decide that. Thats the natural process. Why does Nick need to send a PM telling someone that this isn't the right place for them?

[Tyler]

But to claim there isn't a problem here displays the same blindness as the Consortium die-hards.

That's interesting. See I didn't think I was being condescending at all. I certainly didn't intend that. What did you find condescending about my post?

Since were hashing it all out -- your post is pretty innocuous but the last sentence it the type of thing you like include in your debates. It's just a throw away ad hominem. To me it's more disrespectful than using sarcasm or being too direct with someone or any of your other complaints. Not that your posts really bother me or anything. I just find you taking the lead on the "Nick is rude" campaign a little off-putting.

[IllogicalJake]

But to claim there isn't a problem here displays the same blindness as the Consortium die-hards.

That's interesting. See I didn't think I was being condescending at all. I certainly didn't intend that. What did you find condescending about my post?

Since were hashing it all out -- your post is pretty innocuous but the last sentence it the type of thing you like include in your debates. It's just a throw away ad hominem. To me it's more disrespectful than using sarcasm or being too direct with someone or any of your other complaints. Not that your posts really bother me or anything. I just find you taking the lead on the "Nick is rude" campaign a little off-putting.

How did David take the lead in any way...? He was responding to my post ... He's certainly not the first or only to say Nick comes off rude. And none of us claim to be perfect.

On that note, I appreciate that you gave a detailed response.

[Nick]

Well, war crimes are despicable, anything on an Internet forum might be a level or two below that. I told him in a private message to not post his entire stream of consciousness on the forum.

Oy, this is gonna be a long one...

Like when I was mixed up in the rumors situation, you sent me this:
"You're missing at least a few years of context here, if not at least a decade."

Great. When I wanted some context? No response. Multiple times. Very helpful. You showed off that you know the situation more than me without any interest in actually filling me in.

I sent you a 509 word response that included a full description of my interpretation of the context involved and a link to Rick's LinkedIn page. Back in October.

Not sure what the unhappy people want here. All the happy posters are happy, all the unhappy posters are unhappy in different ways. No one group of more than five people will ever be completely happy. No one is forced to post here. No one is forced to like anyone. The humanity of this all.

[EOst]

I for one enjoy Nick's posts, and indeed nearly everything people post here. But then, I've been arguing on internet forums since I was... 9? (I was, of course, always right.)