urbanMSP

Just put it on the ballot and let voters pick the name from a limited selection. A bunch of liberal busybodies may want to change the name but that doesn't mean everyone has to go along with what they pick to replace it.

Just put it on the ballot and let voters pick the name from a limited selection. A bunch of liberal busybodies may want to change the name but that doesn't mean everyone has to go along with what they pick to replace it.

I'm guessing the same preference was given to the Native Americans by the conservative busybodies when the lake was changed to Calhoun... I'm not sure putting something like a name change on a ballot would be the best option. Allowing the general populous to vote on something like this typically means it won't change - as I'm guessing most (white) voters wouldn't see a need to change it.

I'm indifferent for the most part, but I can understand the desire and certainly think it's worth reevaluating the choices/decisions past generations made.

I think that a lot of people saying "let's compromise and call it Lake Maka Ska" are really just objecting to the name change in a socially acceptable way (especially older people, and I don't think that anyone that's advocated for it here objects to the overall name change, to be clear) but ultimately would prefer it be named Lake Calhoun for a variety of reasons.

Lake Maka Ska makes more sense, but at this point it's as much about the symbolism as it is removing Calhoun's name from the lake. Lake Maka Ska is the better name from a rational standpoint, but Bde Maka Ska is slightly better from a reconciliation standpoint.

I think that a lot of people saying "let's compromise and call it Lake Maka Ska" are really just objecting to the name change in a socially acceptable way...

That doesn't make any sense.

My feels on this, which really don't matter much, are that changing the name from Lake Calhoun to something else should be a no-brainer. Changing it to Lake Bde Maka Ska (or Lake Maka Ska, which has the benefit of not being grammatically terrible) is weird revisionist thinking, because the evidence that it was ever even called this is sketchy at best, and because the Dakota were just one of probably a long line of people who spent a little time at that location. Changing it to something that has some resonance for where we are as a society today makes more sense to me (although the rush of people falling all over themselves to give it this Dakota name of questionable provenance perhaps tells us an awful lot about where Minneapolis is today).

I expect putting a large list up for vote will result in Lake McLake Lakieface.

If voting is opened to Minnesotans outside Minneapolis then Lake Murderapolis has a high chance.

I think that a lot of people saying "let's compromise and call it Lake Maka Ska" are really just objecting to the name change in a socially acceptable way...

That doesn't make any sense.

My feels on this, which really don't matter much, are that changing the name from Lake Calhoun to something else should be a no-brainer. Changing it to Lake Bde Maka Ska (or Lake Maka Ska, which has the benefit of not being grammatically terrible) is weird revisionist thinking, because the evidence that it was ever even called this is sketchy at best, and because the Dakota were just one of probably a long line of people who spent a little time at that location. Changing it to something that has some resonance for where we are as a society today makes more sense to me (although the rush of people falling all over themselves to give it this Dakota name of questionable provenance perhaps tells us an awful lot about where Minneapolis is today).

Why don’t we go the complete opposite direction and name it “Lake Hitler”? Maybe enough people will be outraged that they’ll take any other viable suggestion that comes across the table (be it Bde Maka Ska or Lake Maka Ska or Lake Minneapolis or whatever).

Afraid you lost me there.

I think that a lot of people saying "let's compromise and call it Lake Maka Ska" are really just objecting to the name change in a socially acceptable way...

That doesn't make any sense.

My feels on this, which really don't matter much, are that changing the name from Lake Calhoun to something else should be a no-brainer. Changing it to Lake Bde Maka Ska (or Lake Maka Ska, which has the benefit of not being grammatically terrible) is weird revisionist thinking, because the evidence that it was ever even called this is sketchy at best, and because the Dakota were just one of probably a long line of people who spent a little time at that location. Changing it to something that has some resonance for where we are as a society today makes more sense to me (although the rush of people falling all over themselves to give it this Dakota name of questionable provenance perhaps tells us an awful lot about where Minneapolis is today).

Well, I suppose the counter to that is every name is only particularly relevant to some person or people during some limited period in history, and we name things to honor them retrospectively all the time. As such Maka Ska is as good as any.

I get your point though, why the rally around a relatively arbitrary choice referencing a group that lived there long ago but which is not nearly as broadly encompassing today? It's not as though there's a dearth of Dakota names in general. How about an actual range of alternatives, as opposed to the knee-jerk "Offensive name? Change it to a Native American one!" Why not Lake Unity, or name it after an important figure in Minneapolis history?

"Lake Maka Ska" sounds like the best option all around. Otherwise you're going to get a lot of unintentionally-redundant "Lake Bde Maka Ska" things.

Sort of like "Rio Grande River", which I've heard many times.

Changing it to something that has some resonance for where we are as a society today makes more sense to me (although the rush of people falling all over themselves to give it this Dakota name of questionable provenance perhaps tells us an awful lot about where Minneapolis is today).

Yes, wanting to honor the Dakota from whom we stole is such a shameful place for us to be...

I expect putting a large list up for vote will result in Lake McLake Lakieface.

If voting is opened to Minnesotans outside Minneapolis then Lake Murderapolis has a high chance.

It's Minnesota so Lake Lakeson Anderslake is more likely.

Changing it to something that has some resonance for where we are as a society today makes more sense to me (although the rush of people falling all over themselves to give it this Dakota name of questionable provenance perhaps tells us an awful lot about where Minneapolis is today).

Yes, wanting to honor the Dakota from whom we stole is such a shameful place for us to be...

There are hundreds and perhaps thousands of geographic places, towns, etc. with Dakota names. In the spirit of equality, we should give it a name that honors some other group of disenfranchised people. If we are changing the name from Calhoun due to his support for slavery, it seems like a slam dunk that it should be given a name that honors Black history.

Changing it to something that has some resonance for where we are as a society today makes more sense to me (although the rush of people falling all over themselves to give it this Dakota name of questionable provenance perhaps tells us an awful lot about where Minneapolis is today).

Yes, wanting to honor the Dakota from whom we stole is such a shameful place for us to be...

There are hundreds and perhaps thousands of geographic places, towns, etc. with Dakota names. In the spirit of equality, we should give it a name that honors some other group of disenfranchised people. If we are changing the name from Calhoun due to his support for slavery, it seems like a slam dunk that it should be given a name that honors Black history.

Or we could just acknowledge that not everything has to be an act of political symbolism, recognize that we're really just no longer comfortable having the lake named after a person who lived in a different time and operated under different mores, and rename the lake something relatively benign. Something that even 150 years from now will continue to be non-controversial.

I vote for "Lake Minneapolis".

^That works too, and references Dakota as well...

Or we could just acknowledge that not everything has to be an act of political symbolism, recognize that we're really just no longer comfortable having the lake named after a person who lived in a different time and operated under different mores, and rename the lake something relatively benign. Something that even 150 years from now will continue to be non-controversial.

I vote for "Lake Minneapolis".

What's controversial about Maka Ska?

John C. Calhoun was not merely someone reflecting contemporary views. He actively defended slavery through his diplomatic and military duties and connections. He wrote about his dismay over England abolishing slavery. He outlined plans to expand slavery throughout the Caribbean basin. His diplomacy as an agent of the US was to support and defend slave societies in the Western Hemisphere. Despite Southern slave holders contempt for a large national military, it grew under Calhoun as a means to defend the gruesome institution of slavery.

Basically what I am saying Calhoun was a particularly bad slave owner and his name should not be on the lake.

I'm not seeing anybody arguing here that the name Calhoun should stay.

Or we could just acknowledge that not everything has to be an act of political symbolism, recognize that we're really just no longer comfortable having the lake named after a person who lived in a different time and operated under different mores, and rename the lake something relatively benign.

Calhoun could be categorized as the most vehement and prominent slavery supporter of his time. Changing the name is not an overreaction.

Or we could just acknowledge that not everything has to be an act of political symbolism, recognize that we're really just no longer comfortable having the lake named after a person who lived in a different time and operated under different mores, and rename the lake something relatively benign.

Calhoun could be categorized as the most vehement and prominent slavery supporter of his time. Changing the name is not an overreaction.

As my response indicates, I clearly do not disagree. It's the renaming of the lake that is political theater. Call the lake something benign and non-controversial and let future generations enjoy it in peace.

Yes, wanting to honor the Dakota from whom we stole is such a shameful place for us to be...

Not dissimilar from tearing out the trees and naming the suburbs after them.

More seriously, Lake Calhoun got that name at a time when everything was being named after white men who'd had big roles in settling other white men in Minnesota. That time is over, the name is going. All the suggested replacements have their merits. Personally I like Lake Maka Ska because it reflects the current cultural sensitivities of Minneapolis and has a pleasant meaning. But it's not that important. Does it speak to the spirit of our age, and for the aspirations of those who currently live and play around it? Then good. But if they choose to call it Lake Lakeson Anderslake (my favorite tongue-in-cheek suggestion yet, thanks Evan) that's okay too. As long as the new name doesn't alienate people who want to use it, it's fine.