Soccer Stadium in Minneapolis (cancelled)

[mplsjaromir]

http://mayorhodges.com/2015/04/15/no-ne ... c-subsidy/

What she said.

[Wedgeguy]

We can at least hope with a new stadium, that the cluster f**k call 55 and 7th intersection would get some much needed attention and some other work at connecting the grid north of 7th. The area north and west of 10th ave in the NL will remain commercial. But I'm sure there is a call for lower rent suburban style office/warehouse that would do very well being that close to the freeway and 55 and 7th.

I think that Betsy has drawn a line in the sand and I doubt that she cross it now. What she says about public vs private make a solid reason not to give a subsidy. When you have 3 of the richest families asking for tax breaks, you run into a brick wall.

[VAStationDude]

She shredded The MLS franchise's ownership group's savvy and dishonest characterization of The MLS stadium public subsidy.

[VAStationDude]

Nine council members would be required to over ride Hodges's veto. That seems like an insurmountable bar and I don't see the legislature over riding Hodges in favor of The MLS.

[Tyler]

She shredded The MLS franchise's ownership group's savvy and dishonest characterization of The MLS stadium public subsidy.

omg mickey mouse league omg

The fact that they plan to operate the stadium privately is advantageous to the city. She's either being disingenuous or obtuse leading with that argument.

[VAStationDude]

Privately operated AND except from taxation AND advantageous to city tax payers. Remind me who is being disingenuous.

[VAStationDude]

We were told in this very thread The MLS is successful in part because their stadiums generate revenue for The MLS owners in addition to The MLS events. Now you're writing having a profitable enterprise - The MLS stadium - being private rather than public as advantageous to the public. Huh?

[Wedgeguy]

Will be interesting to see how they spin the public vs private from the owners group. Can anyone think of a private employer that we subsidies with no taxes that is a for profit company? There maybe a few non profits that don't fit this mold.

[Anondson]

Would TIF districts count?

[Didier]

We were told in this very thread The MLS is successful in part because their stadiums generate revenue for The MLS owners in addition to The MLS events. Now you're writing having a profitable enterprise - The MLS stadium - being private rather than public as advantageous to the public. Huh?

What are you even saying? Besides your childish insistence on using incorrect terminology, your irrational dislike for soccer makes your posts practically unreadable.

[Tyler]

With the Vikings stadium Minneapolis is on the hook for something like $300 million in operating expenses. Owning and operating Target Center has been a pure money suck. Yet she is directly comparing these situations in a way which would lead the reader to believe public ownership and operation is better financially for the city. Its truly horrible logic. You cosigning it solidifies just how bad it sucks.

[Wedgeguy]

I don't take it he does not like soccer. But does not like giving tax subsidies for a private stadium, while all other stadiums are public as Target Center does school tournaments, CHS Stadium does high school and college games, Vikings have state football tournaments, Xcel has state hockey which are there for public use. We have two soccer stadiums already that can be used by the public and we have no need for a third and they want it private so they can pay taxes like any other private business. VA is not anti soccer, just anti subsidy.

I'm all for the soccer stadium if they want to build it themselves and pay taxes like any other private business. After reading Betsy's piece I find it hard to believe any Politian will give a forever tax break to them, city, state, or county. Betsy clarified the difference as to why they don't deserve a break.

[Tyler]

Then I'm sure if they propose to give the city the stadium and ask for a Timberwolves-esque deal similar to Target Center Betsy will be happy to change her position. Right?

[dingo]

I dont buy the "We already have two soccer stadiums" argument. By that logic:

We shouldnt have built the Vikings Stadium because we already had TCF stadium for football
We shouldnt have built Xcel because we already had Target Center for Hockey
We shouldnt of built Target center because the Dome (or Williams Arena) for basketball.
We shouldnt have built the Guthrie because we already had the Orpheum for theater.

There are alot of arguments to make on if MN should have a soccer specific stadium at the Farmers Market site.

[Tyler]

I'm sure they feel like they got the rug pulled out from under them. I bet many politicians used the possibility of MLS in the Vikings stadium to help justify the public contributions. To themselves and to others. But scuttling this deal doesn't mean the Wilf's get the team. Could happen, I guess.

[VAStationDude]

With the Vikings stadium Minneapolis is on the hook for something like $300 million in operating expenses. Owning and operating Target Center has been a pure money suck. Yet she is directly comparing these situations in a way which would lead the reader to believe public ownership and operation is better financially for the city. Its truly horrible logic. You cosigning it solidifies just how bad it sucks.

Was it me or Europhile hipster wanks who claimed The MLS stadiums are profitable for The MLS owners?

She knows the Vikings and Target Center deals suck for the city. Those shitty investments shouldn't be further diluted with more city money wasting competition. She's been very consistent in her opposition to public stadium subsidies.

The Target Center is a money pit, obviously. Maybe the city should build another block sized downtown Applebees/bookstore/hooters/movietheater since we pissed away millions on block e? It would only be fair to whatever rich stock backdater owns the land involved.

[Wedgeguy]

Then I'm sure if they propose to give the city the stadium and ask for a Timberwolves-esque deal similar to Target Center Betsy will be happy to change her position. Right?

What part of the "We already have two publically financed stadiums that can be used for soccer" did you miss? Minneapolis does not want to run or own another stadium. The city got back a good portion of what they gave up in taxes with the development that surrounds the stadiums and the sales tax dollars that they get from the business that profit from the 87 games a year for the twins with 20,000+ attendees per game. I averaged and I low balled. The Vikings have 60,000 + for 8 to 9 games a years, where we have hotel rooms booked for out of state visitors and is an institution in the state. Maybe 20 years the MLS will get that recognition. But by that time they will want to be building a larger stadium with a larger capacity.

I'd be curious what the overall difference of the tax bounty, compared to last year when in 2017 the Wells twins are finished, the apartment complexes are open. the development over the parking ramp is figured in in the downtown east section. But you will be taking 2 blocks off the payrolls for the park, so what will be the net gain in $$$. I see the MSL stadium in the same light as the Metrodome. It will have little affect on the area as far as development. The LRT station will have a greater impact on the area and how it hopefully can be redeveloped, if they decide to play elsewhere.

[Tyler]

With the Vikings stadium Minneapolis is on the hook for something like $300 million in operating expenses. Owning and operating Target Center has been a pure money suck. Yet she is directly comparing these situations in a way which would lead the reader to believe public ownership and operation is better financially for the city. Its truly horrible logic. You cosigning it solidifies just how bad it sucks.

Was it me or Europhile hipster wanks who claimed The MLS stadiums are profitable for The MLS owners?

She knows the Vikings and Target Center deals suck for the city. Those shitty investments shouldn't be further diluted with more city money wasting competition. She's been very consistent in her opposition to public stadium subsidies.

The Target Center is a money pit, obviously. Maybe the city should build another block sized downtown Applebees/bookstore/hooters/movietheater since we pissed away millions on block e? It would only be fair to whatever rich stock backdater owns the land involved.

Why can you never address the actual point being made? Which was that her lead argument was disingenuous. It was designed to make people agree with her position without really thinking about it. See Wedgeguy's post. The rest of her post is fine and the competition thing is legit.

But I thought you were the Europhile? Weren't you big upping Serie A earlier?

[VAStationDude]

She's clearly not saying give The MLS franchise a construction capital subsidy, assume stadium ownership and foot facility operating deficits as we do with Target Center. A fair deal for the city is either private taxable ownership or public ownership with guarantees the city isn't on the hook for operating deficits. That's clearly the lead argument.

What is Series A? Is that the league the where Twins single A team plays?

[David Greene]

We shouldnt have built the Vikings Stadium because we already had TCF stadium for football

True.

In addition, we already had the Metrodome.

We shouldnt have built Xcel because we already had Target Center for Hockey

Mostly true. We would have had to reconfigure TC because I believe it couldn't support a regulation-size rink. Or maybe it was just Olympic-size, I can't remember.

More importantly, we now have two competing concert/event centers, causing a race to the bottom.

We shouldnt of built Target center because the Dome (or Williams Arena) for basketball.

Not really true. The Dome was far too big and Williams isn't big enough and has obstructed views.

We shouldnt have built the Guthrie because we already had the Orpheum for theater.

False.

AFAIK the Orpheum doesn't have a thrust stage. Moreover, the Orpheum is alreay booked by traveling acts. The Guthrie company needed its own venue/shops/studio/etc.