Fantasy maps

[DanPatchToget]

Yeah, I'd rather have something like streetcar sprawl than auto-oriented sprawl. With streetcar sprawl at least it's still concentrated along streetcar routes with typically higher-density development around stations. Auto-oriented sprawl on the other hand is just building where ever you can with lots of car storage (surface lots) and connecting it all with big roads.

[Hero]

I'd like to see the urban network built out first so that transit is at least somewhat competitive with driving. Then build out LRT or BRT routes to the outer ring suburbs. Then suburban riders would have easy access to all of the urban areas and it would be easy to leave the car at the park and ride. Instead it almost seems like we are building our transit from the outer ring inward.

[DanPatchToget]

Made a redesign of the 35W & 98th Street interchange. In terms of transit improvements there's an online station for southbound Orange Line buses, bus bays on both sides of the 98th Street bridge so people don't have to walk all the way to the transit station if they're transferring to a local bus, and bus shelters on the 98th Street bridge. For pedestrian improvements there's wider sidewalks along both sides of 98th Street, and most of the traffic signals are placed on the near side of the intersection so there's very little chance of motorists stopping in the middle of the crosswalk.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/tPB1zHk2Q9tZzZg26
https://photos.app.goo.gl/kWdksM8JkD3bSiyH7

[Korh]

I'd be fine if only for the wider sidewalks. I took the Orange line yesterday with my bike just to see how hard it would been to get to Normandale if it opened when I was still going and biking on 98th street between the two still sucks and is only marginally better then biking on france north of 84th street

[Apollo]

Hello,

I'm curious, since we have a avid transportation fans here on this forum, who here has NIMBY Rails from Steam? I've started on recreating the twin cities existing light rail lines, with the intent of adding the Northstar line down the road as well as the Green line and later, Blue Line extensions, eventually going into the realm of fantasy maps by adding the HSR to Rochester, adding the yet to be built rail line to Duluth, etc etc, but I'd like to have a existing map of all the existing lines we have before I branch off into fantasy territory and this app, NIMBY Rail, seems highly realistic with the abilities to add signals, cross overs, scenery (If you put your mind to it) etc etc, this would be a nice app or play into the fantasy realm using realistic trackage and rail units. This app has multiplayer where other players can contribute to your own map and if one want's to branch off into fantasy territory, all they need to do is save the game under a different name and it'll only be saved on that person computer. I thought it would be nice if we could get together and try to recreate existing lines together and have everything in place, that way if we later want to go into fantasy territory, all we would need to do is save the game on our own.

Here's my very early start into the game.

[VacantLuxuries]

I tried this out but I ended up modding in buses because otherwise it didn't feel very accurate to our region.

[Apollo]

I tried this out but I ended up modding in buses because otherwise it didn't feel very accurate to our region.

Why didn't you feel as it was accurate to our region? Also, I haven't tried buses out yet since I just got the game, but that would be cool adding all the aBRT lines. Let me know if you want to collaborate on something, if not, no worries, just looking for like-minded people who loves transportation simulator type of games and thought it would be cool to try to build out our existing twin cities lines then eventually expanding in fantasy maps.

[Trademark]

I tried this out but I ended up modding in buses because otherwise it didn't feel very accurate to our region.

Why didn't you feel as it was accurate to our region? Also, I haven't tried buses out yet since I just got the game, but that would be cool adding all the aBRT lines. Let me know if you want to collaborate on something, if not, no worries, just looking for like-minded people who loves transportation simulator type of games and thought it would be cool to try to build out our existing twin cities lines then eventually expanding in fantasy maps.

This looks really cool! And i'll be down to jump on at some point once my computer stops acting like a snail.

[VacantLuxuries]

Why didn't you feel as it was accurate to our region?

Short answer is because our most used transit lines tend to be buses, and without them feeding into our LRT lines, the regional planning/political motivation of our route planning is much more stark and damning.

Disclaimer - I was not playing on sandbox so that probably was strike one against being able to build a realistic public system. But I basically found that if I only built the LRT (and especially Northstar) without any feeder buses, I had a system with lines (with the exception of the Green Line) that tended to leave populated areas as quickly as possible. Some of this can be attributed to the questionable amount of ridership in some areas over others (since the ridership is generated by publicly available cellphone data) but it's also just an indictment of American car-centric land usage and the Bush era FTA decisions we're stuck with forever.

And because the game doesn't give me bonus money or brownie points for the number of suburban leaders and business stakeholders that the Met Council can shake hands with at a ribbon cutting, it made revenue for expansion really tough to get.

Adding in the existing and proposed aBRT lines actually made it possible to play a revenue service game and still be able to expand the network after everything that exists today was built out.

[Apollo]

Ah fair point. I tend to play transportation games on sandbox mode, I love to craft and sculpt things without limitations. I don't actually play the game for the game, I play it just to be creative and make it look like art, but still remain somewhat realistic. I do the same in another game called, Transport Fever.

[DanPatchToget]

Here's a few past projects involving highway removal and better infrastructure for walkers and bikers.

Highway 81 removal between Highway 169 and Highway 610. The photo shows the area in Brooklyn Center previously known as the Devil's Triangle where Highway 169 used to intersect Highway 81, 85th Avenue, and railroad tracks at-grade. The segment of removed highway through Osseo and Maple Grove would still have a road, but calmed way down and intended only for local traffic. There's also room for green space and redevelopment. Along BNSF's Monticello Subdivision a trail parallels the tracks.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/LX6N2UhjUpojcjKZA

Cloverleaf interchange removal at Bass Lake Road & Highway 169 at the Plymouth-New Hope border. A network of sidewalks and trails are added, and it also includes a regional rail route going over Highway 169 and Bass Lake Road. The regional rail service would operate between Minneapolis, Maple Grove, and communities further northwest using new and existing railroad right-of-way.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/gswL8vMpsWxq1tYH7

Highway 10 removal between I-694 & Hamline/Snelling and I-35W & County Road H in Arden Hills. The cloverleaf interchange at 694 & 35W would be replaced with flyover ramps. The segment of removed highway would be a great route for a trail connecting Bethel University, the future redevelopment of the army ammunition plant, and the Rice Creek Trail.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/EAmTw2yqNWYTsRqT6

[Trademark]

I've been thinking of a Riverview corridor that extends up Arcade past Maryland to Lake Phalen. With exclusive lanes giving improved transit access to the east side.

[grant1simons2]

Introducing the U Line
I've got an idea that I think would work wonderfully. With the immense development happening in NE, University and Downtown, we really need something connecting all 3 with no transfers and high frequency.

Map here:

[Tom H.]

Love the U Line idea, especially since it would make use of many stops already built or planned for other aBRT lines. It's probably short enough to be served by 1 or 2 busses in each direction, but I do wonder if it would be more efficient to cut over on Plymouth instead of Broadway. The ultimate routing decision on the Blue Line extension in that area would probably impact that choice as well.

[Bakken2016]

Intriguing, I actually love this idea!

[MNdible]

Obviously there's a ton of demand in this area, but between the green line and the E Line, most of this should be very well covered.

I could see trimming it down to just the northern section of the loop, and then extending service into the core of downtown. So maybe University Avenue to Broadway to Washington and then maybe Third Avenue down to the convention center, returning on Third back to University?

[Trademark]

Love the U Line idea, especially since it would make use of many stops already built or planned for other aBRT lines. It's probably short enough to be served by 1 or 2 busses in each direction, but I do wonder if it would be more efficient to cut over on Plymouth instead of Broadway. The ultimate routing decision on the Blue Line extension in that area would probably impact that choice as well.

I think it would make sense for it to be a streetcar instead of aBRT. There's enough ROW for it to have its own lane throughout.

[Silophant]

I don't think it's been updated since 2015, but the Metro Transit Service Improvement Plan called for a new Route 13 on University Ave from CHTC to Stadium Village. Obviously the pandemic and driver shortage has put a damper on anything in the near-term, but has anyone heard anything about if planning is continuing on the bus route restructure that MT was looking at pre-pandemic?

[alexschief]

I'm extremely skeptical of loops as a transit route design. To my knowledge, I'm unaware of any really successful loop route that stood out on its own, except at resorts and airports where the rider base is captive and there are big benefits to the efficiency of having just one line. There are a number of successful loop subways, but they (1) cover a far greater amount of territory, (2) are more circular than elliptical, and (3, most crucially) are complementary to a strong polar rapid transit network. There is a good Alon Levy post about the benefits of circle lines, where he really emphasizes the importance of scale when it comes to whether they make sense. With the proposal above, people would use the route for travelling along the rivers on either side, but there's no real reason to take it if you need to cross the river, since there are many alternative options that are more direct.

But I absolutely agree with Grant that this area has a lot of transit demand that is not being well served. Instead of a loop, my preference would be to serve this area with a better gridded network that what currently exists, taking each of the four sides of the loop and extending out and strengthening those routes. If you want to build an everywhere-to-everywhere transit network, you've got to embrace transfers and make them as painless as possible.

Please forgive me for being That Guy, but in the past I've written out longer thoughts about this exact travel market that I think would contribute to this discussion. Here's a piece that discusses why I think Washington Avenue should become one of three core NW/SE busways downtown. Here's a piece about why I would combine the #11 and #17 buses onto a single aBRT route on University that would not bend towards downtown, but would instead double the aBRT frequency on University/4th along with the E Line, and ultimately extend all the way to the Ford Site, filling in a huge hole in Metro Transit's existing network (there is no single one-stop ride from NE Mpls to W St. Paul).

[Tom H.]

If you wanted to "economize" this U Line concept, you could have it cross the river on Hennepin, in which case it wouldn't require any new stations beyond what is already planned for other lines:

- University / Hennpin Ave legs would use E Line stops
- Washington Ave leg would use H Line stops

Shortening it would also reduce the number of busses needed to run it at high frequency, making this an almost "free" aBRT route at that point.