Transit and Land Use Advocacy

[David Greene]

The current carpocalypse is creating lots of buzz on the (as twincitizen calls it) bottom of the internet.

It strikes me that this is an opportunity to do some transit and land use advocacy. It's a moment to help people think differently about how they live and travel.

Like many others, I've enjoyed the schadenfreude and made my share of snarky comments on the Strib but that's not advocacy.

If I had a solid team at this moment I'd set up a media hit to get some photos and TV coverage of how transit and good land use frees us from congestion by avoiding it altogether.

You folks are pretty solid. Any ideas on what such a thing could look like, and would anyone else be interested in doing something?

[mattaudio]

It would look like a bus ride to a light rail through an undeveloped ravine to bring people from their urban neighborhoods to their jobs at an Eden Prairie Cinnabon? \troll

But, decent idea. I'm not sure what it takes to get people to think "OH maybe there's some personal responsibility involved in where I live and where I work and the type of transportation I consume." I realize not everyone has that choice, but most of the complainers do. I think the best approach is just to keep hammering that it's their choice and that there are other choices.

[MNdible]

What if you made a really convincing argument, and a half a million people living in the suburbs decided they wanted to move into Minneapolis? How in the world would we accommodate that?

[Anondson]

Many see roads a having zero operating and maintenance costs after the slab is paved beyond cleaning and plowing. Trains have constant continued operations that are clear as day and are picked at.

These lane closures are part of what you buy into with auto-centric dependence. These are in the operating costs of highways. They are so far deferred no one sees it as obviously normal.

With multimodal transportation you have when one mode has down moments other modes can grab slack. We have crippled all modes but the car.

We buy this when we buy nothing but highways. It is what they come with.

[mulad]

I'm being drawn to comparing the current construction calamity with the introduction of the Tri-Rail commuter service in southern Florida up the coast from Miami. That was added back in 1989 when I-95 underwent a major construction project. We still have three radial rail lines heading out to western suburbs:

• Union Pacific's Golden Valley Industrial Lead roughly parallels Golden Valley Road (MN-55)
• BNSF's Wayzata Subdivision runs south of I-394 and could pull in a lot of people who use that freeway
• The Twin Cities & Western's main line runs just south of MN-7 and interleaves with Excelsior Boulevard (planned for SWLRT)

Just west of Highway 100 is Canadian Pacific's MN&S Subdivision, also known as the Dan Patch Line. We at least have a lame excuse for why that one isn't being actively examined by the state or Met Council -- it's been banned from study as a commuter rail service for many years now.

Any of these routes (plus BNSF's Monticello Subdivision corridor planned to be used for Bottineau LRT and abandoned corridors like the Lake Minnetonka LRT Regional Trail) really should have been looked at for the simplest upgrades possible to allow rail transit -- ideally a DMU or even EMU if someone sprung for the upgrade cost for catenary, but simply getting more use out of the existing Northstar fleet would be great too.

[RailBaronYarr]

What if you made a really convincing argument, and a half a million people living in the suburbs decided they wanted to move into Minneapolis? How in the world would we accommodate that?

Well https://streets.mn/2015/06/02/what-if-we ... -tomorrow/

[mattaudio]

It seems like it should be intuitive that it's easier to fit a half million new people into urbanized areas rather than new exurban greenfields. The fact that we usually assume it goes the other way around shows how skewed our current system is.

[Nick]

In theory, if you built a five story residential building on every vacant or parking lot in the city, how many people is that? There are a whole lot of places where you could sock away 10,000 or 20,000 new people, the missing piece is transportation infrastructure.

[trigonalmayhem]

The current traffic nightmare combined with the bus detour is also demonstrating just how awful our inner city transit system is. I know buses were slow on the mall but I really didn't think they could get any worse. Minneapolis rose to the challenge and surprised me.

[xandrex]

What bus routes are suffering? I can only speak for the 17, but it's no slower than before the re-route.

I rather like it...given I live nearly right on 24th and work right by Government Plaza Station, I effectively have door-to-door service.

Given the cluster that is the west metro at the moment, however, I could see how buses running more on Hennepin/Lyndale would struggle as people find alternatives.

[mamundsen]

What routes are suffering? As far as I can tell (from my coworker's complaints) it is mostly the express routes from DT to the Park and Rides.

[mattaudio]

I took the 14 last week, and it was insanely slow southbound from Downtown to about Lake. Especially the jog along Franklin. This is usually slow during PM rush, but there was literal gridlock. Waited four or five cycles to turn left from 11th onto Franklin.

[LakeCharles]

What routes are suffering? As far as I can tell (from my coworker's complaints) it is mostly the express routes from DT to the Park and Rides.

This is it mainly. The routes along Marquette/2nd are taking much longer than usual to get out of downtown. Especially the traffic/people blocking the intersection on 9th means that sometimes the buses often sit through 3+ lights before getting through an intersection. I take the 133 down to 38th and notice it is slower.

[EOst]

The 11 is the fastest it's ever been.

[LakeCharles]

Still faster to take the 133 to 38th & 4th than the 11 though. The 11 has a such a small sliver where it is faster (if you are coming from downtown). If you're west of 2nd the 18 is more frequent and closer. East of Oakland the 5 is more frequent and closer. South of 36th or so the 133 or 535+46 is faster. If you're up by Lake almost every express bus stops at Lake/35W. So thats like 6 square blocks where the 11 is the best route. I only bring this up because I live right on the 11 and so rarely take it.

[EOst]

Still faster to take the 133 to 38th & 4th than the 11 though. The 11 has a such a small sliver where it is faster (if you are coming from downtown). If you're west of 2nd the 18 is more frequent and closer. East of Oakland the 5 is more frequent and closer. South of 36th or so the 133 or 535+46 is faster. If you're up by Lake almost every express bus stops at Lake/35W. So thats like 6 square blocks where the 11 is the best route. I only bring this up because I live right on the 11 and so rarely take it.

All very true. I don't know why anyone would take the 11 south of the 3rd/4th jog.

[mattaudio]

Yet they are planning to upgrade the entire 11 to hi-freq status (south to 46th/terminus) meanwhile those of us who use the 14 south of 38th Street get no love. The 14, where it's over a half mile to the 5 or to the 22... gets less love than the 4, where it's less than a half mile to the (hi-freq) 5 or 18.

[LakeCharles]

Yet they are planning to upgrade the entire 11 to hi-freq status (south to 46th/terminus) meanwhile those of us who use the 14 south of 38th Street get no love. The 14, where it's over a half mile to the 5 or to the 22... gets less love than the 4, where it's less than a half mile to the (hi-freq) 5 or 18.

I assume you mean the 11 in your last sentence there, but anyway that'll make three hi-freq routes north-south within a mile (18,11,5). Which is nice for me personally, but seems a strange allocation. I'd rather have the 23 or 46 be hi-frequency.

[David Greene]

Anyone else organizing a National Night Out event? They are good opportunities to talk to people about land use and transportation issues. I had some good conversations about permit parking and recerting 26th/28th to two-way operation last year.

What specific issues would you all like to talk to your nieghbors about?

[Anondson]

There is a good chance the traffic apocalypse on the west gets brought up. Might be worth asking if gripers would have bothered to use a mass transit option knowing now it would be this bad.

There was an op-ed in the Sun Sailor claiming that if MNDOT had implemented highway bus lines along 169 or 494 the writer would have gladly used them after having to drive in this.