Bloomington - General Topics

[Mdcastle]

Still remember the glory days of the strip mall with Snyder's, Hardware Hank, REI, Hallmark, Bensons Optical, Clover Cleaners et al.

That's all gone. Nor do I eat at 98 Pounds Buffet. Nor will I ever shop at Lakewinds so what they do to the area doesn't matter to me.

The Bloomington Facebook Group comments are similar to the HyVee comments- about 200 saying "We need Lakewinds", about 20 saying "Save 98 Pounds Buffet or the Wild Bird Store". About 1 or 2 saying "this should have been a mixed use development instead of sprawling retail". When you contrast the comments with the city council's ambitious, idyllic vision for these areas, either there's a disconnect between what the residents of Bloomington want and the residents that are on Facebook, a disconnect between what the residents of Bloomington want and our government that's supposed to represent us. Or possibly both.

At some point the city is going to have to decide whether to allow these things that will lock in a land use that they don't like for at least another generation, or doing nothing (if they can) and letting the area stay underused and vacant for who knows how much longer. A while back they did put their foot down , the outlot at Lyndale and American they had visions of a soaring, majestic office tower or something. Te only proposal they got was a HyVee gas station. The city said no since they could since they owned the property, and it's still nothing but dead grass. They can probably stop HyVee if they want because the FAR is nowhere close to meeting code without counting the "future phases". This they probably can't stop, I don't think they rezoned the area yet because they didn't have a appetite for yet more head-butting with KA so the variances they're asking for are minor.

[twincitizen]

City plans are always going to be aspirational, as they should be, but reality is often disappointing. Perfect new urbanist developments like Excelsior & Grand or Highland Bridge are the exception, not the rule. Both of those projects had heavy city involvement in planning and execution, as well as hefty TIF deals to pay for infrastructure improvements.

Is Bloomington providing any TIF at either Southtown or Clover Center? If not, well there’s a partial explanation for why the developer isn’t building streets aligned with the grid, building tons of housing in phase 1, etc. I also wonder how much economic uncertainty, fear of rising interest rates, etc. is impacting plans to add housing at these sites.

[Apollo]

Still remember the glory days of the strip mall with Snyder's, Hardware Hank, REI, Hallmark, Bensons Optical, Clover Cleaners et al.

That's all gone. Nor do I eat at 98 Pounds Buffet. Nor will I ever shop at Lakewinds so what they do to the area doesn't matter to me.

The Bloomington Facebook Group comments are similar to the HyVee comments- about 200 saying "We need Lakewinds", about 20 saying "Save 98 Pounds Buffet or the Wild Bird Store". About 1 or 2 saying "this should have been a mixed use development instead of sprawling retail". When you contrast the comments with the city council's ambitious, idyllic vision for these areas, either there's a disconnect between what the residents of Bloomington want and the residents that are on Facebook, a disconnect between what the residents of Bloomington want and our government that's supposed to represent us. Or possibly both.

At some point the city is going to have to decide whether to allow these things that will lock in a land use that they don't like for at least another generation, or doing nothing (if they can) and letting the area stay underused and vacant for who knows how much longer. A while back they did put their foot down , the outlot at Lyndale and American they had visions of a soaring, majestic office tower or something. Te only proposal they got was a HyVee gas station. The city said no since they could since they owned the property, and it's still nothing but dead grass. They can probably stop HyVee if they want because the FAR is nowhere close to meeting code without counting the "future phases". This they probably can't stop, I don't think they rezoned the area yet because they didn't have a appetite for yet more head-butting with KA so the variances they're asking for are minor.

That's exactly what I said in this thread about the Hyvee, and it's no coincidence that Kraus Anderson is behind both grocery store proposal. Kraus Anderson, the land owner isn't being visionary here, which they shouldn't be, after all they are only land owners and constructors here, their only concerns are to just follow the dollars and maximize their profits. The city really should be the one pushing for a better land use on both sites.

Do you also know what happened in the city meeting about the Hyvee? Did they approve it and move it forward to the city council? It would suck if we're stuck with a Hyvee and strip malls for another generation instead of the vision laid out in the Penn-American study they city did some time ago.

[Mdcastle]

Hy-Vee public hearing before the planning commission continued until 10/28
Clover Center public hearing before the planning commission 10/14, staff recommend approval.

[HKM]

It just seems to be an incredible missed opportunity to connect four existing (at the time of this line's construction at least) rapid transit options - SWLRT, D line, Orange Line, and Blue Line, along one of the worst areas of congestion in the state, and to bring a massive suburb closer in line with our supposed regional goals.

I can see it not making as much sense as some of the other routes, and I get it not being on the immediate project horizon, but on the list of things the Met Council has spent money on, it would rank much higher than 'tunnel under a bike path' and '$100 million on advanced design work without consent of the right of way's owner.' Spending half a billion on a bus line to Woodbury ranks higher than this?

You may want to look at the project documents on the Network Next planning site you linked. The final report shows the American Boulevard corridor scored 18th out of 19 evaluated corridors and didn't crack the top 15 in any individual criteria so not sure how anyone could justify it being part of the 11 corridors chosen.

[Mdcastle]

Planning Commission recommended denial of Clover Center with a 4-1 vote as not being consistent with the 2040 Comprehensive Plan in built form or the "Green Spine" extension of Aldrich. A parking lot driveway with a sidewalk on one side isn't what I envisioned a "Green spine" looking like and the planning commission didn't either.

The applicant said a 5 over 2 mixed use was considered earlier in the process but didn't give a clear answer why it didn't proceed. Putting the building closer to 98th and facing the "Green Spine" wasn't feasible due to grade changes, stormwater management, parking, and loading combined with the "Green Spine". However the city may not be able to stop the project, since under state law it's allowed to replace a noncomforming use with something "substantially similar" and the planning commission's opinion is this passes the smell test as "substantially similar".

[mattaudio]

how it started

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how it's going

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[thespeedmccool]

Sincere question: why do we bother doing this TOD planning if it doesn't get folded into comprehensive plans? To imagine what could've been?

I sure hope the broader region (via Met Council or otherwise) didn't sponsor this station-area plan just for Bloomington to ignore it. I think cities (or counties?) usually pay out-of-pocket for station-area planning, but then I cannot explain why Bloomington would pay for it to then just ignore it.

[Mdcastle]

So, the TOD planning has been folded into Bloomington's comprehensive plan, and the planning commission voted to recommend denial on that basis.

Now that ball is in the city council's court. They can

A) Approve it because they actually like it
B) Approve it because they don't want a nasty legal fight that will probably result from a denial, one they'd probably lose
C) Deny it and have the probable nasty legal fight, that they'd probably lose, and this would get built anyway, and meanwhile piss off the developer from working amicably with them on phase 2.

Bloomington's position is that the state law requiring the city to allow property owners to rebuild nonconforming uses as substantially similar doesn't necessitate using the existing foundation, a precedent they set by allowing the Southtown Wendy's to be rebuilt. I think the intent of the law was to not punish property owners if their store was hit by a tornado or burned down by rioters, but this is the unintended consequence we have to live with.

Although I live in the area, I've never eaten at 98 Pounds Buffet and will never shop at Lakewinds, so I have no strong feelings on the matter.

[twincitizen]

I'll throw in:
D) Kraus-Anderson makes enough changes to the site plan to better match the city's expectations in terms of the Aldrich green spine, and it gets approved. I think they'll successfully argue that they should get to build the building they want because it comes so close to matching the existing building footprint.

Not that I have super high hopes for the residential portion of this happening, but if I were given a blank slate but I had to design this site with a single story grocery on one part of the site and 5+1 mixed use buildings elsewhere on the site, this is probably pretty close to where I'd want the grocery store to go, with the taller mixed-use buildings lining Lyndale and wrapping the corner.

One massive flaw in the City's plan of wanting a "green spine" (or literally anything) to happen along the Aldrich alignment is that they have no plans to add a signal at 98th & Aldrich, so good luck crossing there. 98th is not the kind of environment where drivers are going to voluntarily stop for pedestrians, even with flashing lights at the crosswalk (if they even plan on putting in a crosswalks!)

[Apollo]

Saw this today on Facebook, another mark on this proposed development. Perhaps the city is trying to send the developer an message here.

[DanPatchToget]

Not surprisingly but still disappointingly the comments to the post are along the lines of "leave it alone," claims of a "liberal agenda" going on, questioning who asked for this development, claims that Lyndale is already walkable, etc. Stay classy Bloomington.

[Mdcastle]

Classic Minnesota passive-aggressive. I love it.

After thinking about it my position is the city should play nice and approve the thing in exchange for a deal to get something better than the minimum allowed by code in the 2nd phase, like maybe something resembling a "Green Spine" more than "Parking Lot Aisle". If the city plays hardball KA can return the favor and sue them and win and build the project anyway, and then they're not going to lift a finger to make any kind of concessions on phase to.

I also question who'd want to live in a mixed use building with their balcony overlooking 98th street or the freeway on-ramp, but I guess I was wrong about the Southdale parking lot thing.

[Mdcastle]

Hy-Vee plan comes before the planning commission on Thursday with the revision to add a 5 story / 55 unit / 54 parking space residential building on the northwest corner of American and Knox. The vibe I'm getting is the city are telling them they'll let them do what they want with the grocery store and liquor store if they "bulk up" that corner of the intersection.

[mamundsen]

Listed as “Future Phase” implies it could never get built. What guarantees it gets built?

[Mdcastle]

Hy-Vee continued to Dec 16 at the developer's request, reason cited is "the impact of construction inflation on lease negotiations".

[COLSLAW5]

https://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/ ... ancel.html

well looks like the Hy-vee is scrapped but sounds like they still have others that might want to move to the site. I wonder what else might want to move here

[Mdcastle]

Lakewinds continued until the Jan 24th City Council meeting. Stated reason is "negotiating with the tenant regarding changes due to feedback from the planning commission". Which surprises me, because the feedback wasn't anything between "This plan sucks, it's not cute and dense enough". and "Could you put a few more trees by the front door". If it's the former, that's not happening, at least not in another month, and if it's the latter, you wonder why the request for a few trees has delayed the project two months to date.

As for Hy-Vee, while the stated reason is plausible, I wonder if the "Save the Bowling Alley" people had anything to do with it, or if Hy-Vee wasn't that enthusiastic about the project due to not being able to fit a gas station in on the site. If you remember the Cooper Theater, they backed away until other people came in and did the dirty work for them, then when it was gone they took the line "we had nothing to do with it, but since the site is already cleared, we might as well build our store now".

[Mdcastle]

There's also rumors going around the Bloomington Facebook pages that A) It was KA that pulled the plug, not Hy-Vee, for unstated reasons, and B) Hy-Vee decided they really wanted more parking than what would be available.

[Mdcastle]

Rezoning request to allow a four story car dealership replace the Days Inn on the northeast corner of 100 and 494

Also a place called "Kids Empire", basically a Chuck-E-Cheese style playground and birthday party venue, wants to lease the two empty spaces next to the Valley West Dunkin', originally spec built intended for a insurance agent / cell phone type retails store and sit-down restaraunt. There's a rumor that Panera was originally thinking about the restaraunt spot, even though it's not set up for the drive-thru that they want at most new locations.