Minneapolis 2021 Elections - Mayor, City Council, BET, Park Board

[tedlanda2571]

Who am I? If I'm the president they're trying to keep in office, I'd be out there in the streets trying to calm them.

If I'm the capital police chief, I'd have not had my head in the sand and prepared a bit of Walz ahead of time.

C'mon, you are being willfully obtuse.

The election facing us is mayor, and you gave a hypothetical mayor 3 options. What should Muriel Bowser have done to mitigate January 6th?

Lol. What? She couldn't have done much of anything one way or the other on January 6th. But it seems like a highly irrelevant question, since Minneapolis is not the nation's capital, or even the state capital.

Your LOL is facing the wrong person: I'm not the one who suggested there were only three options in such situations.

[mplsjaromir]

I understand many on here are okay with racist violence, but have you considered how bad of a deal the police are financially?

People will moan about Northstar being expensive, but cops not showing up to work and gloating, think those same police deserve a raise.

If a Metro transit operator bragged about not doing their job and did a wildcat strike until everyone assuaged their ego, y'all would be stroking out.

The cops are all talk and until their pensions and paychecks are on the line they will do nothing to stop of patently obvious patterns of predatory violence toward marginalized groups.

[uptownbro]

While I only ranked Frey I would not stress about the future of the city if Knuth was elected as she seems like someone who wants reform (even if I might not agree or might agree with some policies) but isn't willing to put every citizens safety at risk just to try something they heard on a podcast or people on twitter accused the city of something. Nezhad would give the state to the GOP in 2022.
The riot was a complex event that occurred at an angry time in the US when everyone had been locked inside for nearly 3 months and was consumed by fear and anxiety due to the first covid wave.
The data on police like most things is complex and full of caveats that people on twitter like to boil down to good vs evil narratives. There are many differing view points on this topic that dont see the light of day on fox and cnn as they dont get ratings or clicks
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/28/opin ... acism.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpTqmfrFlHk

https://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/na ... 805423001/

[tedlanda2571]

If the Mayor and Chief were physically accountable at that moment and committed to hearing people out and seeing the confrontation off, what happened that evening and beyond would not have occurred.

It's certainly possible that what you describe may have happened. I happen to believe that it is equally (or more) likely that if the mayor and chief had been 'physically accountable at that moment' that bad actors would have taken the opportunity to try and pigeon-hole them into saying or promising something stupid and if/when they refused we would have been in precisely the same situation, except with media images of the mayor and police chief fleeing a mob.

Why do I think this? Because that's precisely what happened with the de-funder city councilpeople, except that they caved and made a ridiculous promise.

[tedlanda2571]

I understand many on here are okay with racist violence,

I find that frustrating as well. The notion that a bunch of amendment 2 supporting Caucasians with little fear of violence want to 'whitesplain' public safety to black folks is highly offensive.

[mplsjaromir]

I despise obvious racist violence that without full video context goes unpunished and I hate extremely wasteful municipal spending. Amendment 2 goes after both. The major incidents (and coverups) would have been better served without pseudo soldiers. Don't worry 'The Punisher' type guys will still be around, just maybe not a numerous.

[alexschief]

If the Mayor and Chief were physically accountable at that moment and committed to hearing people out and seeing the confrontation off, what happened that evening and beyond would not have occurred.

I don't disagree with this in theory, but IMO you're vastly oversimplifying the situation that weekend.

Wasn't the spark that turned the protests into riots when "umbrella man" smashed the windows at AutoZone? People came out that weekend with all manner or motivations, and much of the damage and looting was opportunistic — whether by agitators or by people who saw an opportunity to grab some free stuff off the shelves at Target.

George Floyd was killed on a Monday, the first protest was on Tuesday. I'm not sure of the exact timing of various things (obviously I wasn't there, only following through social media) but my memory was that the justification for police to start clearing the area was when a couple people climbed the fence into the parking lot, where guns were being kept in cars. Remember that protestors pleaded with the umbrella man to stop what he was doing. Early on, there were a lot of peacemakers in that crowd.

My interpretation is that a big part of the problem was that protestors wanted to confront someone but the police were already fully walled off and prepared for a fight, and so frustration started to build and cooler heads ended up having less sway. Having elected officials and MPD upper brass be accountable at the scene could've helped deescalate the scene with words, but when there were only riot police, it made escalation into a riot inevitable.

[thespeedmccool]

I understand many on here are okay with racist violence, but have you considered how bad of a deal the police are financially?

Wow what a disingenuous way to paint about half the city.

MPD is a despicable, racist, waste of tax dollars. The department's culture is absolutely beyond the point of no return. Thar's why I support question 2.

That said, some government-run force tasked with responding to violence is necessary. There's no future for safety without crisis response. That's why I can't support Nezhad; she wants abolition.

If there weren't abolitionists in the crowd, the vast majority of Minneapolitans would support 2 and there'd be little question as to its passage. It's the potential that people like Nezhad will be implementing is what's holding back moderate DFLers.

[Didier]

What he said.

[Tiller]

Wasn't the spark that turned the protests into riots when "umbrella man" smashed the windows at AutoZone?

"Umbrella man" was the spark that let loose a lot of destruction, but the spark could have been any act similar to that. The cause (the gasoline the spark ignited) was a buildup of fear/frustration because of how the economy tanked (remember, we didn't get that first covid relief bill until after massive nationwide Civil unrest spurred congress to action), an uncontrolled outbreak of covid, and frustration over how MPD never gets held accountable and does whatever they want.

The last point was brought forth by George Floyd's murder, but the use of violence by MPD towards peaceful protestors is what really stirred things up and set the stage for what happened after umbrella man broke those windows. Lots of people can and do remain emotionally detached from the day-to-day violence perpetrated by MPD.

But with so many protestors and minneapolitians seeing and being subject to that violence who normally weren't, things got bad fast. You can only maintain an oppressive police state in a democracy if the majority of voters are unaffected by it.

[amiller92]

willing to put every citizens safety at risk just to try something they heard on a podcast or people on twitter accused the city of something.

Wow is that some condescending, ill-informed, BS.

Nezhad would give the state to the GOP in 2022.

They said that about Ilhan. Turns out change is slow, if it comes at all.

[SurlyLHT]

I think you all have established you don't agree on Question II. How about some more productive conversation?

[tedlanda2571]

Ok, here’s my attempt to advance the conversation:

My grave discomfort with a poorly written amendment 2 aside, I believe that the best outcomes for the city are (in no particular order):

2 passes (by any margin) and Frey loses

-or-

2 fails by a wider margin (say, 55%+ ‘No’) and Frey wins

Conversely I think the worst outcome for the city is:

2 fails narrowly and Frey loses.

A more or less ‘50/50 but still status quo’ vote with a Mayor who has advocated for replacement will be a disaster in my opinion.

[amiller92]

Honestly don't think the fate of question 2 matters that much. If it passes, they'll be able to put in place a more efficient reporting structure. As you say, if Frey is the one responsible for it, even less will get done.

But there's no coalition for immediately significantly reducing police levels. The question is how much progress we can make standing up other resources. That work was ongoing before George Floyd was murdered and will continue whatever happen with the votes.

Personally, I want 2 to pass just to demonstrate that all the sky is falling predictions won't happen in the ever naïve hope that the same people who warned us about bulldozers are, once again, exaggerating about what will happen.

Same for partially wanting Sheila to win (I ranked her second). It's all going to be okay.

[Didier]

But there's no coalition for immediately significantly reducing police levels.

TBH there's not much of a coalition for reducing the number of police at all. In a September Minnesota Poll, 55 percent of people said Minneapolis *should not* reduce the size of its police force. That included 75 percent of Black respondents.

https://www.startribune.com/minnesota-p ... 600097989/

This amendment is really about voting for *something.* Clearly there are problems with the MPD. Almost everyone agrees significant reforms are needed. It just so happens that the one real opportunity we have to make a change was written by the minority of people who want to shrink the police force.

[alexschief]

Think it's pretty disappointing that Q2 didn't pass, at least in part because it rewards a lot of cynical politics, especially the MPD's obvious sickout and work slowdown. Obviously people on this forum are pretty plugged in and know that it wasn't going to eliminate the police. I think the media didn't do a great job of clarifying that for people, but ultimately a lot of blame falls on the drafters as well. The "...if necessary" bit was an unforced error that might've made a difference, given how close the vote was.

The pressure is now on the city to do something else, because the problems that led to Q2 won't go away. The DOJ's investigation and consent decree may eventually help grease the skids, and the mass resignation of officers in the past year has given the department a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to hire better replacements. But the culture of the department and how that manifests itself in training and discipline seems unlikely to change without stronger measures.

On the Council side, it's a huge bummer to see smart progressives lose. I think the last four years represented an extraordinarily productive and positive time in Minneapolis' political history, and to see that come to an end and parts of it jeopardized is rough. I think the cat is out of the bag on a lot of things though, and it will be hard for the new council to walk back many of the housing and transportation changes that have been made (especially where city staff is bought in).

My impression of the new council is that the "moderate" block is much stronger. If you assume that Arab prevails in Ward 2 (my best guess, although anything can happen with such a tangled vote), Ellison survives in Ward 5 (not guaranteed), and nothing absolutely wild happens elsewhere, then I'd divide the council like this:

Progressives (3-4): Payne, Ellison, Chavez, Chughtai (or Jones)
Moderates (5-6): Arab, Vetaw, Osman, [Council President] Jenkins, Johnson, (and if Porter defeats Ellison, I think she'd be here)
Relative Conservatives (4): Rainville, Goodman, Koski, Palmisano,

[amiller92]

This amendment is really about voting for *something.* Clearly there are problems with the MPD. Almost everyone agrees significant reforms are needed. It just so happens that the one real opportunity we have to make a change was written by the minority of people who want to shrink the police force.

You stated that correctly, but it's also unfortunate how effect the lies about the police going away were. And the Charter Commission's tactic of keeping it off the ballot last year.

[SurlyLHT]

The whole thing was foolhardy and was the wrong approach. All they had to do was look at Sanders inability to build a coalition during his last Presidential run. .The general public doesn't have a stomach for these far-left policies. We saw this with Sanders, we see this now in Virginia and here in Mpls with Question 2 losing by a large margin.

The proponents have marched a dead-end and squandered an opportunity by choosing a divisive path while the city was united in the shadow of Floyd's murder. Now we're divided and our streets are bloodied.

They should have engaged the BIPOC community members and forged ahead with a path which included police. That was their main mistake, they disregarded folks like Rev. McAfee and Levy-Pounds instead of engaging and listening and to folks who have been fighting these issues for years they didn't even engage many of these leaders and went along their own path which for a number of folks has led directly to the exit. Look at the Ward 4 and 5 races. Latrisha beat Cunningham by almost 30 points and Ellison has 30% versus the 50% of his two main challengers in the most African American community in the State of Minnesota.

The activists thought they were wise, but turns out their wisdom was only imaginary and their plans were foolishness.

The Lesson here....listen to your Elders...

[amiller92]

Question 2 was the path that included police.

[mplsjaromir]

There is not a path for police reform. The police have zero interest. The mayor has zero interest. They would prefer to payout multimillion dollar settlements every year than change one thing about their rotten department. Too bad for Minneapolis taxpayer, at least the guys who live in Anoka County won't have their feelwings hort.