Harmonia - 255 2nd Ave S - 25ish / 20ish / 10ish stories

[Silophant]

Wells Fargo has sold their downtown Operations Center at 3rd and Washington to Sherman, says this Bizjournals article. No comment from Sherman about what they're planning on doing with it.

[alexschief]

Wells Fargo has sold their downtown Operations Center at 3rd and Washington to Sherman, says this Bizjournals article. No comment from Sherman about what they're planning on doing with it.

Potentially pretty exciting. I think this building is one of the worst in downtown Minneapolis. Combined with a couple other bad buildings, it effectively forms a wall of unwelcoming streetscapes that separates the CBD and the Mill District. Shifts in working habits will hopefully lead to the elimination of awful Class B/C office buildings like this one.

Sherman's previous work in this area has been almost all high density residential and I hope and assume they have the same idea here. Owning a full block parcel will hopefully give them the license to produce a nice site plan and design. This site is also adjacent to the Public Service Block, which is in limbo again. But the effect of development on both those parcels, if they add a significant amount of housing, would be an exceptionally positive step for downtown.

[uptownbro]

When the city gave John Buck Co. rights to the site it was also stated they would work with the city for the next 18 months on design plans and an agreement could be executed six months after that. That would mean we should get plans in the next few weeks in theory unless something has changed that im not aware of.
https://www.axios.com/local/twin-cities ... hn-buck-co

[MNdible]

I don't know exactly what happens in the WF Ops Center, but there's clearly a lot more to it than meets the eye. It seems to be an iceberg, with more square footage underground than above ground. Demolishing it is going to be a major undertaking, and you'll need to have a big project planned and financed before you do anything with it.

I wonder if they'll try to find a new user who would use the existing building as a data center or something similar.

[Nick]

I’m moving into the Crossings across the street next month (for the Dagwood’s access) and thought the giant cavernous underground parking garage was a little odd compared to what you see in newer construction. Wonder if they did them at the same time or something?

[lordmoke]

Having been in the Operations Center a couple times (decades ago at this point) I can say the basement levels are absolutely much larger than what you see above ground. They were formerly home to, among other things, a massive supercomputer (might have been more than one, I'm not sure) that ran bank operations. Employees at the time referred to it as the 'Star Wars Room' for some context on what it looked like down there. There is almost no chance this building is reusable for another occupant unless they just... mothball parts of it, I guess.

[mattaudio]

The cash vaults used to be down there. Like pallets of cash. They’re elsewhere in Minneapolis now.

[Silophant]

I’m moving into the Crossings across the street next month (for the Dagwood’s access) and thought the giant cavernous underground parking garage was a little odd compared to what you see in newer construction. Wonder if they did them at the same time or something?

1. Strongly recommend having Moises cut your hair.

2. Yeah, I don't know if there's some local oddity about the bedrock there or what. We hear a lot about how hard it is to go more than a few feet underground downtown, and then there's these two buildings across the street from one another with 4-5 underground levels each.


There's an example just a few blocks down 3rd of a disused corporate operations center being leased out as both office space and a data center. I wouldn't be surprised if that's what happens here too. Hopefully they can do some amount of expansion and remodeling above ground so the building gets to be a little less of a black hole in the Washington streetscape, but a full demolition and rebuild seems unlikely.

[Hero]

I’m moving into the Crossings across the street next month (for the Dagwood’s access) and thought the giant cavernous underground parking garage was a little odd compared to what you see in newer construction. Wonder if they did them at the same time or something?

Don't forget about Skyway Wok. And the building across 3rd has some good restaurants as well if I remember correctly.

[twinkess]

Having been in the Operations Center a couple times (decades ago at this point) I can say the basement levels are absolutely much larger than what you see above ground. They were formerly home to, among other things, a massive supercomputer (might have been more than one, I'm not sure) that ran bank operations. Employees at the time referred to it as the 'Star Wars Room' for some context on what it looked like down there. There is almost no chance this building is reusable for another occupant unless they just... mothball parts of it, I guess.

I was in there 20ish years ago. Did a 12 hour temp job in their backup tape room, 6pm-6am. Sub basement 3 or whatever. Was a little disconcerting seeing as every task (fetch tape xxx from location yyy) was assigned to you by a computer. This, combined with the overnight nature of the shift, not being able to see outside at all, and what was worse one of the rooms was a halon gas fire suppression room. If the smoke detectors went off you needed to get to one of the oxygen masks hung in the room ASAP so you didn't suffocate. I had to walk next to the "Star Wars Room" and I though it looked like NASA mission control.

[twincitizen]

Well it sounds like they'd better offer public tours before demo'ing the current structure. As for the speculation, buying and operating an old office building doesn't seem like Sherman's wheelhouse, especially in the current office environment, even if they got it for half the assessed market value. I assume they are envisioning a couple towers here, built in phases.

[uptownbro]

https://www.sherman-associates.com/news ... velopment/
Looks like it will be a full redevelopment.
"Sherman’s concept includes three buildings that deliver a 10-story, mixed-income mid-rise apartment; a 20+ story, market-rate high-rise apartment; and a 25+ story, mixed-use high-rise building on the site."

[Silophant]

Wow. Good call, twincitizen.

Absurd number of parking stalls, but I guess what else are they gonna do with four preexcavated underground levels?

[Trademark]

Wow. Good call, twincitizen.

Absurd number of parking stalls, but I guess what else are they gonna do with four preexcavated underground levels?

I don't mind them using the underground levels for parking, but if they do, I wish they would move the Gateway Transit Center here and tear down that parking ramp to redevelop. It would have provide a much better connection to MARQ-2 as Northbound buses (Including the Orange Line could pull into the ramp and serve as a layover point for all the buses using that corridor.

[Nick]

^That’s a good idea

[Anondson]

The image in the Star Tribune seemed to show one Tower much higher than 25 stories. I hope they come close to the preliminary designs shown.

I’m pleased to see the central blocks of Washington get some filled up in the past few years. The Washington Square blocks feel less lonely.

[alexschief]

Lots to like. Bunch of thoughts on this one:

First of all, I'm glad they are doing three buildings. While we're never going to go back to the days when a block like this would have a dozen or more separate buildings on it, it's nice to have at least some variety. I would've preferred four buildings, with a different look at each corner, but this is fine.

Second, this will be a huge development for downtown living in terms of both the specs and the location. Applying some recent comps (the 10 story Thrivent Block apartments and Sherman's 22 story project on Portland), I think we can estimate around 480+ units of housing, pending the distribution in the mixed-use building. Almost as important, as I noted in my first comment up the thread, this development will replace one of downtown's least vibrant buildings with a complex that should be active at all hours, and at a crucial hinge point between the strip of activity along Nicollet Mall and the strip of activity in the Mill District. Currently those two areas don't really meet, and the existing building is a big reason why.

Third, I think it's fascinating that people are still looking at building offices. It goes to show that "flight to quality" is not just CRE-speak, but a real phenomenon. I know the Gateway Tower is completely leased and clearly Hines has gotten enough attention for North Loop Green that they are considering the 900 Marquette project. It's remarkable that this Wells Fargo building alone represents 10% of downtown's vacancies. It certainly seems like a good bet that we are going to see a lot of redevelopment pressure on Class B/C office spaces (like the Northstar Center conversation, which is another Sherman project) in the next couple years (the 801 Nicollet/ex-B&N building is my prime candidate). I continue to think that it all bodes pretty poorly for suburban office parks as well.

Fourth, I love the idea of using this building's inevitable parking surplus (with so much underground space, I'm resigned to the fact that there's nothing else they are likely to do with it) to justify eliminating the Gateway Ramp. As it happens, I excitedly texted Nick this idea last night as well. If two of us came up with it independently, then I hope that it's occurred to other people as well. It would make a certain amount of sense for Sherman, as they would've then redeveloped three of four consecutive blocks along Washington.

Fifth, this building is going to make a significant impact on the iconic downtown skyline view from the Stone Arch Bridge. When the Bridge re-opens after rennovation in 2025, the timing should line up nicely because this will nearly be done.

[MNdible]

Not to say that it can't be done, but I'll note that a parking garage that can accommodate buses on its internal ramping looks radically different than one that only needs to accommodate cars.

[contrast]

For what it’s worth, the Strib image shows a 34 story building. That’s quite a bit more than 25+. Of course much tbd yet…

[grrdanko]

This is some interesting news.

"Sherman Associates' goal is to "produce an engaging dining and retail district" for Harmonia's residents, as well others who live in and around downtown Minneapolis."

https://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/ ... oject.html