Northstar Commuter Rail

[DanPatchToget]

I don't know if dedicated tracks would be necessary, but yes there needs to be more track capacity to allow an increase in frequency.

[commissioner]

They double tracked big lake to becker several years ago, which might be partly why it doesn't go to St. Cloud

[mattaudio]

The plan is to add a third main from Coon Creek Jct (where the main to Superior cuts off) to Northtown Yard. If shovel-ready NLX gets funded, it will take care of that. Widening/rebuilding the Hwy 610 underpass is likely required, but that fits in with a potential NLX/Northstar Station at the Foley Blvd park and ride.

Further into Minneapolis, there are some minor chokepoints such as possibly double tracking the turnoff at Mpls Jct and adjusting the siding across Nicollet Island into a true second main from the passenger terminal lead to the Mpls Jct split at Harrison St.

[Hero]

Roads are expensive? We tend to spend $3 Billion a year on roads. Google tells me there's an average of 3.38 trips per person per day taken by Minnesotans, so multiply that by 365 and multiply that by the states population, you get 6 billion trips in Minnesota per year, for a spending of 50 cents a trip. Then subtract out the 1/3rd or so paid for by user taxes and figure that some level or roads need to exist even if no one owns a car; to get artichokes to the grocery store and bicycles to the local bicycle shop to find the subsidy amount.

Minneapolis has about 40 feet of road per resident. Aitkin county has about 1,199 feet of road per resident.

[commissioner]

The plan is to add a third main from Coon Creek Jct (where the main to Superior cuts off) to Northtown Yard. If shovel-ready NLX gets funded, it will take care of that. Widening/rebuilding the Hwy 610 underpass is likely required, but that fits in with a potential NLX/Northstar Station at the Foley Blvd park and ride.

Further into Minneapolis, there are some minor chokepoints such as possibly double tracking the turnoff at Mpls Jct and adjusting the siding across Nicollet Island into a true second main from the passenger terminal lead to the Mpls Jct split at Harrison St.

The MPLS Jct area has been rumored to get double tracked for a while. Can they double track the line from Mpls Jct to the terminal leads without the neighbors freaking out or too many environmental issues?

[DanPatchToget]

The plan is to add a third main from Coon Creek Jct (where the main to Superior cuts off) to Northtown Yard. If shovel-ready NLX gets funded, it will take care of that. Widening/rebuilding the Hwy 610 underpass is likely required, but that fits in with a potential NLX/Northstar Station at the Foley Blvd park and ride.

Further into Minneapolis, there are some minor chokepoints such as possibly double tracking the turnoff at Mpls Jct and adjusting the siding across Nicollet Island into a true second main from the passenger terminal lead to the Mpls Jct split at Harrison St.

The MPLS Jct area has been rumored to get double tracked for a while. Can they double track the line from Mpls Jct to the terminal leads without the neighbors freaking out or too many environmental issues?

I would think so since it used to be a double-track mainline, and some of the second track is still there.

[DanPatchToget]

Northstar service might be suspended beginning September 16th due to the railroad workers strike. Several Amtrak routes including the Empire Builder have already been suspended.

Metro Transit will provide replacement bus service if commuter rail is suspended.

[Korh]

Anyone want to put money on the replacement bus service lasting longer than the strike if it happens.

[DanPatchToget]

Then we would have to return some money (I forget how much, all I know it's in the millions) to the Feds.

[Bakken2016]

Strike averted, Northstar will run as normal!

[Tiller]

A strike/lockout may not be averted yet, there hasn't been a vote on any deal yet.

[Bakken2016]

Dan W.PNG

Reached out to Rep Dan Wolgamott of St Cloud this morning, he is currently crafting legislation to extend the Northstar to St. Cloud!

[Trademark]

I'm so excited to see this happen! Will they have to do a new study or will the 2020 study be what they use to determine service?

[Bakken2016]

I'm so excited to see this happen! Will they have to do a new study or will the 2020 study be what they use to determine service?

I didn't ask that, I guess we will see when the legislation is posted.

[DanPatchToget]

Well if they do another study hopefully it won't be a dust collector like the one from 2020, and they're more ambitious with service proposals. Doesn't have to be LRT frequency, but it should be regional rail frequency.

[Trademark]

Well if they do another study hopefully it won't be a dust collector like the one from 2020, and they're more ambitious with service proposals. Doesn't have to be LRT frequency, but it should be regional rail frequency.

Regional rail frequency should be implemented between Anoka and Downtown Minneapolis with an infill at Central and Broadway maybe to Ramsey. But considering we would have to build a third track to get midday service Elk River and beyond justify it as they are and will be primarily park and ride services with no plans to start regular bus service.

Regional rail should have regular service for sure between Anoka and Lakeville interlining on the Dan Patch. Even 30 minute peak frequency and hourly offpeak would be huge!

Although I would be happy with the bidirectional alternative proposed in the 2020 study as a mid term solution while we building political will (through the successful implementation of the Dan Patch Line) to the idea of increased frequency.

[commissioner]

I'd love to see this happen but getting BNSF on board might be an issue since 1. it's a very busy mainline and they own it and 2. BNSF would be running the trains

[Trademark]

I'd love to see this happen but getting BNSF on board might be an issue since 1. it's a very busy mainline and they own it and 2. BNSF would be running the trains

It would require triple tracking for the length of where we want to run regional rail type service, hence why I only want it to go to Anoka and maybe Ramsey, but not the entire length of the route as the capital costs of triple tracking all the way to Big Lake or St Cloud is a ton of cost with a lot less benefit.

[commissioner]

I can see triple tracking to Coon Rapids but not from there to St Cloud, Besides, the entire line has been rebuilt with double track or CTC or both over the last several years thanks to Northstar and the oil boom, not to mention the NIMBY factor.will be an issue if they do it.

[Trademark]

BNSF said they need one track for dedicated freight service, they use one track for passenger service and then do maintenance on the passenger track during the midday so likely it would require three tracks for midday frequent service. 100% agreed it shouldn't be triple tracked to St Cloud. But Anoka or Ramsey is reasonable especially if we could get 30 minute peak service out of it just to Anoka or Ramsey, which is definitely achievable.