Northern Lights Express

[twincitizen]

Lower fares would be great, but I can't imagine families with multiple kids being a core market for NLX. Maybe once just to try it out, but I'm hard pressed to see how that would make sense either economically or practically, compared to driving. For college students or singles or couples, etc., sure, you can take public transit or walk or Uber or rent a car on the destination end of your trip. Even for a hypothetical "car free/light" trip where maybe the family's only plans are to hang around Canal Park for the weekend, you can't really get around the issue of needing car seats for an Uber or rental car, not to mention all the crap one needs to lug around to take kids anywhere.

Different question - do you think they will charge extra to bring a bike on the train? I'd kinda hope not.

[Trademark]

Lower fares are needed. With $35 tickets which is what I've been hearing a family of 4 would be paying around $280 for a round trip. Ticket's shouldn't be more than $20

I know someone is gonna say that comparing it to Northstar is wrong, but I swear the later has some kind of discount for families and might do that or am I going crazy and they have never offered any service like that.

Yes, the Northstar offered Family Discount Passes pre pandemic.

I'm not an amtrak expert. Does anyone know if other Amtrak services offer family discounts?

[Silophant]

Fares for kids 2-12 are 50% off on Amtrak (0-2 is free), and there's also escalating discounts for groups of three or more, though the latter could probably be publicized more - I think you have to book it through that specific webpage.

As far as bike fares go, it looks like the bike fare depends on the route. Might be decided by the state that's subsidizing the service?

[MNdible]

Have they decided where the maintenance facility for this will end up? If I recall, Sandstone, MN was lobbying hard for that, but a location at either end would seem to make more sense.

Also, wasn't there a desire for layover yards past Target Field Station that were contemplated at some point?

[Silophant]

The most recent analysis on the MnDOT website leaves it up in the air whether the maintenance facility would be in Sandstone or Duluth. Presumably a layover yard would need to be built in Duluth anyway, so hopefully the maintenance facility ends up there too. Not sure about additional layover facilities at Target Field, presumably it depends on what ends up happening with Northstar.

I also haven't seen anything about anyone but MnDOT funding this project. I guess it maybe makes sense for Minnesota to fund the track upgrades in WI necessary to get to Duluth, but, agreed, it's bizarre that we should pay for the Superior station.

This legislative report on the Wisconsin passenger rail program mentions $2.2M in design contributions to the NLX project, so I guess they're paying for their small portion of NLX after all.

[mattaudio]

The Sandstone O&M idea was an attempt to placate opposition on the route.
IMO, assuming this and TCMC both use Amtrak Midwest trainsets, it makes the most sense to find an area near Minneapolis for O&M with expansion potential. Something along Northtown Yard for example.

[mulad]

At some point there had been some investigation of areas southwest of Target Field, though some of the options there have become obstructed by the Southwest LRT extension, though I may be crossing wires with TCMC or the old higher-speed train plans to Chicago.

[DanPatchToget]

A piece from 5 Eyewitness News that's both hit and miss. They bring up a few good points both in favor and against NLX, but I'm not sure getting viewpoints from a conservative think-tank is balanced reporting, and they never mention NLX will have 4 daily roundtrips instead of North Star's 1 daily roundtrip. https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/wil ... McGgEqqtZI

[StandishGuy]

Argh! The latest All Aboard MN newsletter says NLX is 7- 10 years away from operations, which sounds really far away. Apparently, the environmental impact statement is now out of date and needs to be redone and negotiations with BNSF restarted. . Finally, MNDOT hasn't yet submitted an application to the Feds for matching funds.

I had previously understood that the NLX was "shovel ready" due to having a FONZI. Disappointing.

[grrdanko]

I don't think it will ever happen, tbh

[MNdible]

This tweet shows a proposed extension of the North Shore Scenic Railroad up to Biwabik. Has anybody seen anything about this before? While I could see at least some potential for a train connection up to Giant's Ridge, the track from Two Harbors up to the range is still in active freight use with long consists of taconite cars, correct?

[DanPatchToget]

Looks like an old map considering the light rail lines are still referred to as the Hiawatha Line and Central Corridor. Also if I'm looking at it right the Central Corridor is still in the proposal stage.

[MNdible]

Yeah, I noticed that too.

[Korh]

Isn't the NSSR just a tourist train run by volunteers that only runs a few round trips during the spring to fall?
As cool as it would be to see it extended, I don't see it being turned into a proper mass transit system since they seem to be lacking in infrastructure, equipment, manpower, and demand to even warrant a non excursion train to two harbors let alone an extension to Biwabik

[Tom H.]

Man, if you were going to extend to Biwabik, Ely is so tantalizingly close that it would be hard not to imagine extending it there as well.

(As someone who used to work intermittently at the underground lab in Soudan, it would have been amazing to have had a rail option to get to the area.)

[MNdible]

It looks like the DM&IR tracks up to Tower and Ely have been abandoned and converted into a snowmobile trail.

[commissioner]

This tweet shows a proposed extension of the North Shore Scenic Railroad up to Biwabik. Has anybody seen anything about this before? While I could see at least some potential for a train connection up to Giant's Ridge, the track from Two Harbors up to the range is still in active freight use with long consists of taconite cars, correct?

It is and I highly doubt that CN is going to be welcoming to anything on their tracks considering their treatment of Amtrak on their Chicago-New Orleans main.

[twincitizen]

Argh! The latest All Aboard MN newsletter says NLX is 7- 10 years away from operations, which sounds really far away. Apparently, the environmental impact statement is now out of date and needs to be redone and negotiations with BNSF restarted. . Finally, MNDOT hasn't yet submitted an application to the Feds for matching funds.

I had previously understood that the NLX was "shovel ready" due to having a FONZI. Disappointing.

So what's the latest on this? It seems so strange that this news broke so soon after the legislature authorized funding in the 2023 session. Seems like it should have been known about then?

[DanPatchToget]

It's certainly an unfriendly reminder that the process for making transit/passenger rail projects reality in this country needs to change. Doesn't need to be like China where the government can just swoop in and grab land with no questions asked (well, that's supposedly what it's like that over there), but taking years and millions of dollars just in studies for a passenger train running a few times per day on an existing railroad is ridiculous and unnecessary.

[Nick]

No one at any level of anything is going to get in trouble for it taking five times longer and it costing five times more than it should, but a lot of people will get a piece of the delay and overrun.