Blue Line Extension - Bottineau LRT

[twincitizen]

Before getting too far along in asking "How will people transfer between the Blue and D Lines?", I think it would be wise to first ask that question with a "Why" instead of "How". I don't mean to suggest no one will transfer; obviously there will be some transfer demand between two of the busiest routes in our system. But I wouldn't assume that just because there are two high quality/frequency transit lines intersecting that there will automatically be high transfer demand. I think it's possible that there will be more transfers happening between the remaining local bus routes (5, 14, 30, 32, etc.) and LRT/BRT than from rapid transit to rapid transit.

Keeping in mind that transfers between the Blue and D Lines can also occur throughout downtown (with an identical walk penalty of 2-3 short blocks as is proposed at Broadway), I'm struggling to envision too many specific trips where a rider would choose to make that transfer at Broadway specifically. If you're leaving downtown and your final destination is along the D Line, you'd just board a bus downtown. If you're heading into downtown, no one's getting off the D on Broadway and switching to rail...that doesn't make sense. One trip connection where you would want to transfer at Broadway vs. transferring downtown is southbound D Line to southbound Blue Line, for those specifically going to Washington/Plymouth area or Target Field. I suppose folks living along the D Line in North who want to get somewhere on the suburban portion of the Blue Line extension would likely make that transfer at Broadway.

[Tcmetro]

Basically only those who live along Emerson/Fremont between 26th and 44th and going somewhere along Hiawatha, or to the Airport/MOA would be impacted. The transfer is maybe 2-4 minutes longer than the previously proposed location.

Also a mitigating factor is the 22 bus 1/4 mile to the east and the C Line 3/4 mile to the west.

I think having better neighborhood access with two stations will drive ridership more than the D Line transfer and will also help fill in a lot of the vacant land on the section between Girard and Penn.

[StandishGuy]

I'm starting to hope this whole Blue Line extension project collapses based on the new, proposed route. The route past Robinsdale down the middle of a 6-lane stroad is awful, and now the North Minneapolis routing is looking pretty bad. I fear the route along 10th and 21st Avenues will make access for pedestrians quite inconvenient. I really don't like that they are planning to demolish actual urban structures at Penn Ave. Plus, the cost of all this is likely to sky rocket...

[Bakken2016]

I'm starting to hope this whole Blue Line extension project collapses based on the new, proposed route. The route past Robinsdale down the middle of a 6-lane stroad is awful, and now the North Minneapolis routing is looking pretty bad. I fear the route along 10th and 21st Avenues will make access for pedestrians quite inconvenient. I really don't like that they are planning to demolish actual urban structures at Penn Ave. Plus, the cost of all this is likely to sky rocket...

The route past Robbinsdale just used to be to the side of a six lane stroad, not sure how that is any different. This project will provide so much more access and ridership than the previous alignment. Personally really like the new routing with a station at Plymouth and Washington to serve the dense development in the North Loop. Both 10th and 21st are proposed as Transit Malls, how does that make it difficult for pedestrian access, Washington Ave Mall at the UMN is pretty great!


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[VacantLuxuries]

There's things to dislike about it (personally I think the Bass Lake Road station being treated like a highway grade separation project first and a transit station second is the most egregious) but I don't think it's so disastrous that it warrants hoping for it to fail.

It looks like they're leaning towards making 10th a pedestrian mall with access allowed over LRT tracks for emergency vehicles only, and if building demos are a concern, that's one of the reasons the community preferred 21st over Broadway. Fewer properties would need to be taken on the 21st alignment versus the Broadway alignment.

I take more issue with them trying to fit a Park and Ride next to the Robbinsdale station than it being center running. Can the parking, use the money to instead build a pedestrian bridge over Bottineau to serve the station. Suddenly, there's a way to both cross the car sewer and access transit. Any criticisms about a train "dividing the community" while it runs in the center of a pseudo freeway become empty kvetching.

[Nick]

I'm starting to hope this whole Blue Line extension project collapses based on the new, proposed route. The route past Robinsdale down the middle of a 6-lane stroad is awful, and now the North Minneapolis routing is looking pretty bad. I fear the route along 10th and 21st Avenues will make access for pedestrians quite inconvenient. I really don't like that they are planning to demolish actual urban structures at Penn Ave. Plus, the cost of all this is likely to sky rocket...

I like to complain about everything, but this situation ended up being about as big a win as a realistic transit person could ask for. The map looks a little bit funny, but after the never ending debacle with the Green Line, the first third of the Blue Line extension is probably going to be the last half decent big time transit spending around here for a long time. We could have chosen to dick around with the Wirth alignment for two decades! Maybe someone learned their lesson.

[mattaudio]

Imagine a history where instead of assuming railroads would play nice in swampy low-intensity corridors, we had done elevated driverless automated light metros from the start with 3-4 minute headways regardless of driver shortages.

[UrbanMPLS]

Imagine a history where instead of assuming railroads would play nice in swampy low-intensity corridors, we had done elevated driverless automated light metros from the start with 3-4 minute headways regardless of driver shortages.

A world where every top 30 metro area in the country tried to copy Vancouver instead of Portland would certainly be better. Unfortunately, that’s not the one we’re in.

[SurlyLHT]

I'm starting to hope this whole Blue Line extension project collapses based on the new, proposed route. The route past Robinsdale down the middle of a 6-lane stroad is awful, and now the North Minneapolis routing is looking pretty bad. I fear the route along 10th and 21st Avenues will make access for pedestrians quite inconvenient. I really don't like that they are planning to demolish actual urban structures at Penn Ave. Plus, the cost of all this is likely to sky rocket...

I like to complain about everything, but this situation ended up being about as big a win as a realistic transit person could ask for. The map looks a little bit funny, but after the never ending debacle with the Green Line, the first third of the Blue Line extension is probably going to be the last half decent big time transit spending around here for a long time. We could have chosen to dick around with the Wirth alignment for two decades! Maybe someone learned their lesson.

I wouldn't worry about those structures. One is abandoned after the tornado 10 + years ago. Another is boarded up I think from the unrest. The church will probably enjoy getting the buyout and the most notable structure is the old NAZ HQ on Penn/Broadway near the Capri, but they got hit with gunfire a number of times so they are moving to 2nd and Broadway. KMOJ is still in that building and they have spoken out against the LRT line. A new food hall is also proposed in this area which will hopefully help the leftover land get filled in TOD.

[twincitizen]

MinnPost on the delayed vote: https://www.minnpost.com/metro/2023/08/ ... few-weeks/

Contact your Met Council member in support of the project, especially if they're one of the suburban members who voted to delay: https://metrocouncil.org/About-Us/Who-W ... mbers.aspx


Hennepin Co. Commissioner Irene Fernando statement on approving the new route & timeline: https://www.hennepind2.com/statements/2 ... d-timeline

[BigIdeasGuy]

I'll take the over on 2030 all day

[alexschief]

I mean, knock on wood, but this project doesn't seem to include any tunnels through wetlands, floating bridges over lakes (East Link in Seattle), or P3 delivery structures (Purple Line in Maryland). Building LRT on plain old surface streets, plus three bridge structures (by my count) is something you should be able to do in that kind of timeframe.

[COLSLAW5]

I am also assuming there is a soft plan to try to roll over the green line project office staff into this project. That should help keep it moving as well as you don't have to start from scratch like they did with southwest because of the gap in time between it and central corridor.

[daveybabymsp]

I am also assuming there is a soft plan to try to roll over the green line project office staff into this project. That should help keep it moving as well as you don't have to start from scratch like they did with southwest because of the gap in time between it and central corridor.

Sounds like we need to start planning the next line so we can roll blue line staff over to that project!!

[Bakken2016]

I am also assuming there is a soft plan to try to roll over the green line project office staff into this project. That should help keep it moving as well as you don't have to start from scratch like they did with southwest because of the gap in time between it and central corridor.

Sounds like we need to start planning the next line so we can roll blue line staff over to that project!!

Well there is Riverview!


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[twincitizen]

Agreement reached between Hennepin & Met Council to keep 'er movin: https://metrocouncil.org/News-Events/Tr ... -2023.aspx

I'll take the over on 2030 all day

That's too easy. Let's set the over/under at 2032.

[daveybabymsp]

Agreement reached between Hennepin & Met Council to keep 'er movin: https://metrocouncil.org/News-Events/Tr ... -2023.aspx

I'll take the over on 2030 all day

That's too easy. Let's set the over/under at 2032.

Hoping that the route is easier and they have learned their lesson from swlrt so I’ll take under! But I won’t be shocked if I’m wrong lol

[Tom H.]

I'll take the over on 2030 but the under on 2032. No tunnels on this one, and without the Kenilworth tunnel SWLRT would be nearly complete by now.

[Bakken2016]

I just watched the Met Council meeting from Weds, and CM Judy Johnson truly wants this to be a BRT project, but that's not what most people want or makes the most sense. She really frustrates me.

I guess only 3 out 17 votes on the Met Council are against it, Johnson, Vento, and Wulff.

[Silophant]

In a twist no one could have expected, the gambit to avoid the NIMBYs on Lyndale by routing down 10th and Washington has run into NIMBYs on 10th.