Downtown Minneapolis Retail News

[Oreos&Milk]

A lot of talk about building owners needing to attract new business downtown but...do businesses even want to be downtown? My job is mostly remote, but I was in the office last week and walking around during a break, there's no other way to describe it other than a ghost town. It's kind of a Catch-22 situation, but unless you have a specific niche that works for downtown, why would you choose to locate there? It's empty, has a crime perception problem, is one of the harder places to find parking near where you want to be (yes, I know, I know...).

Uniqlo gets floated on here a lot and...what exactly is appealing about downtown Minneapolis to Uniqlo? Downtown is just not a place people come to shop. It would be out of the way for most people. Frankly, if one opens, it's going to be at Mall of America.

Folks are also commenting that we need something that will bring people downtown, but that's exactly what was tried and failed in the 90s and early aughts. A more sustainable approach might be luring the boring but crucial stores that make downtown easier and more hospitable. But that's a pretty tall ask when there aren't that many people living in the true core of downtown.

I'm generally bullish on the future of Minneapolis. But I'm fairly bearish on downtown as a thriving area of daily commerce anytime soon. It's actually pretty depressing how lousy most of Minneapolis' commercial areas are doing these days.

I hope we see more pharmacy/hardware/grocery type options pop up along Washington(where people actually live. As far as I’m aware, there isn’t a single hardware store downtown. There are no pharmacies in Downtown East. And the only grocery stores in walking distance of north loop and downtown east are Whole Foods and Trader Joe’s respectively.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Downtown Minneapolis in general is severely lacking in convenience stores. I wish 7-11 had a presence in this city as it would be really helpful to be able to run inside and grab something real quick while waiting on a bus transfer or something like that.

No to 7-11

But YES! To Kwip Trip creating an urban design !!

They are the buc-ee’s of Minnesota!! Bring milk in the bag sales to the downtown!!!!!

I miss the Holiday “gas station” in the MOA.

[tedlanda2571]

I've probably posted this before, but my prediction is that in 20-30 years remote work will be viewed similarly to the way mid-century freeway construction is viewed today: as 'gee-whiz progress' that made life more convenient for a bunch of well off white people without any real consideration given to the destructive impacts on urban communities.

[VacantLuxuries]

Yeah, sorry, it's not all the skyways...and some other cities have their versions of them and do just fine. But if it was all the fault of the skyway, we would have a thriving active retail (whatever form that may take) scene on the 2nd level...we don't have that either.

To be clear, my comments about the skyway are not that we should abolish it. But I just went downtown during the weekday for the first time in a long time. I arrived at 5pm, and had a bit of time to kill before a 7pm appointment. The only reason I was able to get a drink from Starbucks was because they had the door halfway open as they were closing and they were nice enough to let me get a last order in. Fast food places that in other cities would be operating for dinner were shut down. Target's gates were shut at 5:45.

And it wasn't like it was a ghost town, either. There was regular post-work traffic throughout the skyway almost everywhere I went, other than dead end segments. There were multiple events happening downtown at this time. But tenants that are taking up space in this system, that in other cities would be open later if they were on the street level, were closed. You can't tell me that in other cities without skyways, nobody in the CBD grabs a bite to eat from fast food restaurants on the way home. Or picks up groceries on errands. But we've created a system and incentive for business owners to pretend that nobody exists after 5pm in Minneapolis.

Maybe the Downtown Council should spend less time on empty scarecars and intervening in local politics and focus on pressing skyway tenants to stay open until... hell, even 6pm would be a start. Work up to the weekends if things go well. My comments shouldn't be read as "the skyway is the reason retail isn't working in Minneapolis", rather "we are stuck with the skyway one way or another, so it should have standardized operating hours for its tenants and not focus exclusively on serving office workers on their lunch break." Because that's a recipe for a dead city outside of business hours.

[SurlyLHT]

Yeah, sorry, it's not all the skyways...and some other cities have their versions of them and do just fine. But if it was all the fault of the skyway, we would have a thriving active retail (whatever form that may take) scene on the 2nd level...we don't have that either.

To be clear, my comments about the skyway are not that we should abolish it. But I just went downtown during the weekday for the first time in a long time. I arrived at 5pm, and had a bit of time to kill before a 7pm appointment. The only reason I was able to get a drink from Starbucks was because they had the door halfway open as they were closing and they were nice enough to let me get a last order in. Fast food places that in other cities would be operating for dinner were shut down. Target's gates were shut at 5:45.

And it wasn't like it was a ghost town, either. There was regular post-work traffic throughout the skyway almost everywhere I went, other than dead end segments. There were multiple events happening downtown at this time. But tenants that are taking up space in this system, that in other cities would be open later if they were on the street level, were closed. You can't tell me that in other cities without skyways, nobody in the CBD grabs a bite to eat from fast food restaurants on the way home. Or picks up groceries on errands. But we've created a system and incentive for business owners to pretend that nobody exists after 5pm in Minneapolis.

Maybe the Downtown Council should spend less time on empty scarecars and intervening in local politics and focus on pressing skyway tenants to stay open until... hell, even 6pm would be a start. Work up to the weekends if things go well. My comments shouldn't be read as "the skyway is the reason retail isn't working in Minneapolis", rather "we are stuck with the skyway one way or another, so it should have standardized operating hours for its tenants and not focus exclusively on serving office workers on their lunch break." Because that's a recipe for a dead city outside of business hours.

This is wishful thinking given labor conditions and that many of these organizations are family run. I've heard that Mall of America is even struggling to have their stores open during non-peak times. If MOA can't do this how do we expect Downtown Minneapolis to?

We live in a different reality post covid with new labor realities especially for small businesses and need to adjust our expectations. Heck, I don't even expect fast food places to have their lobbies open anymore since they are often closed due to labor shortages.

[alexschief]

It's true that these types of retail businesses don't want to be downtown... but they do apparently want to be in the North Loop, which is "downtown" in my mental model of the Twin Cities, but a different submarket from the point of view of the consultants. I wish downtown landlords would think a bit about reasons why that might be the case.

Anyway, the skyway and highway issues are obviously the main structural ones, but downtown Minneapolis is going backwards on the former and nowhere on the latter. There's only one other solution that matches the scale of the problem (certainly there are smaller opportunities, I'd love to see landlords dividing their spaces into smaller portions), which is just to keep building more and more housing, and more and more offices that people will want to actually go to. Ultimately, only sheer numbers of people can overwhelm these structural handicaps.

The good news is that this is happening. By my count, there are at least 1,764 apartments under construction right now across the neighborhoods of downtown between NLG, Block One, 240 Portland, Duffey 2.0, and a couple of smaller projects. The 17 N Washington and Harmonia projects would add hundreds more. I think it's entirely reasonable to be pessimistic about downtown in the nearish term, but I think it's hard to justify longer term pessimism. The weight of demography will continue to increase and provide opportunities for businesses that want to take them.

Oh, and Uniqlo should move downtown because Nick and I alone will probably make it profitable.

[daveybabymsp]

It's true that these types of retail businesses don't want to be downtown... but they do apparently want to be in the North Loop, which is "downtown" in my mental model of the Twin Cities, but a different submarket from the point of view of the consultants. I wish downtown landlords would think a bit about reasons why that might be the case.

Anyway, the skyway and highway issues are obviously the main structural ones, but downtown Minneapolis is going backwards on the former and nowhere on the latter. There's only one other solution that matches the scale of the problem (certainly there are smaller opportunities, I'd love to see landlords dividing their spaces into smaller portions), which is just to keep building more and more housing, and more and more offices that people will want to actually go to. Ultimately, only sheer numbers of people can overwhelm these structural handicaps.

The good news is that this is happening. By my count, there are at least 1,764 apartments under construction right now across the neighborhoods of downtown between NLG, Block One, 240 Portland, Duffey 2.0, and a couple of smaller projects. The 17 N Washington and Harmonia projects would add hundreds more. I think it's entirely reasonable to be pessimistic about downtown in the nearish term, but I think it's hard to justify longer term pessimism. The weight of demography will continue to increase and provide opportunities for businesses that want to take them.

Oh, and Uniqlo should move downtown because Nick and I alone will probably make it profitable.

Agree with the highways & skyways analysis. I think if urbanists want to focus on a controversial campaign to remove one of those highway removal should definitely be the top priority!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Trademark]

Forcing the skyways to be open later, and having more visible entrances to the second story is really all that we need to turn the skyways from a negative to a positive. They are still a big draw to people who visit, and too regulars who know the system. If we got rid of them we would have more people on the streets by default but I think less people would be in downtown overall especially in winter.

[VacantLuxuries]

This is wishful thinking given labor conditions and that many of these organizations are family run.

TIL Taco Johns and LeeAnn Chin are small struggling businesses we can't expect more than the bare minimum from. And I'm not particularly fond of 'labor conditions' as an excuse, given that plenty of establishments that have used that excuse for why their staffing and hours are lean have actually not been calling back any of the job applicants who apply. Turns out, if everyone expects so little of your service because of 'market conditions,' you can make more profit by doing nothing to improve your service. But that's neither here nor there.

Like, I don't expect every single store or kiosk to be open, but part of the tradeoff of ceding our street level retail to the skyway is that our downtown becomes useless if the skyway is closed. If it's not kept open and useful outside of working hours, it's a blight and no amount of boosterism or grandstanding about crime will change that.

It's just weird to me how much the downtown business interests meddle and complain about politics in Minneapolis but don't seem to consider things like "Hey, maybe if you adjusted lease rates in exchange for the restaurants in your skyway zone staying open late enough for the return commuters, the extra commerce and people milling about might make downtown feel more welcoming and somewhere people might want to spend time and money."

I'm not a fan of the skyway by any means, but if it's going to stay, actually commit to it being successful. Standardize the hours and make it useful. The halfway measure of 'let it languish and haphazardly close sections of it under the guise of public safety concerns' isn't working.

[Tyler]

I've probably posted this before, but my prediction is that in 20-30 years remote work will be viewed similarly to the way mid-century freeway construction is viewed today: as 'gee-whiz progress' that made life more convenient for a bunch of well off white people without any real consideration given to the destructive impacts on urban communities.

Dont agree. And if we are talking about dt specifically, I think its forced transformation into a mixed use neighborhood rather than a place people drive to to go to work is going to be hugely positive, eventually.

[amiller92]

The transition might be a bit painful though.

[tedlanda2571]

Dont agree. And if we are talking about dt specifically, I think its forced transformation into a mixed use neighborhood rather than a place people drive to to go to work is going to be hugely positive, eventually.

I actually agree with you, with emphasis on ‘eventually’. I don’t think downtowns will be ghost towns forever. Cities have evolved/reinvented themselves many times, and they’ll do it again.

That said, it could take a decade, maybe two to get back to levels of activity that are close to pre-Covid. We’re already coming up on three years since the pandemic hit and we are still in the fallout stage waiting for leases to expire, understand property tax/budget implications, etc.

A decade or two of a broke city, largely empty office buildings and storefronts, trying and failing at innovative concepts, and a generally tumultuous ‘rebirth’ will totally suck in my opinion.

Not to mention, again, that in the interim the ‘benefits’ of this transformation will accrue to a largely white professional class and the costs will be borne by those who are disproportionately non-white and less affluent.

[Didier]

What does a downtown population book actually look like, though? Presumably the highest demand for housing would be closer to the river or in places like Loring Park rather than in the CBD, especially if there’s less of a reason to “go downtown” with everyone working from home.

[mnmike]

Now Marshall’s too. Basically, nothing left for shopping.

[Bakken2016]

Now Marshall’s too. Basically, nothing left for shopping.

The core needs to replicate what the North Loop is doing, because retail is thriving in that part of downtown Minneapolis.

[grant1simons2]

This is rock bottom

[John]

Not completely rock bottom but close lol. At this point I doubt the Nicollet Mall Target store will close. It's still popular with nearby downtown residents and the office workers that remain. It does have an odd feeling on the second floor with so much merchandise locked in cabinets due to the high amount of shoplifting. But generally speaking, the store does feel much safer than the previous last couple years, with much less malingering of drug dealers, gang activity in the atrium and on the corner.

As long as the downtown residential community remains strong, I think there is hope for retail to come back in some form in the CBD. AS has been mentioned some conversion of office space to residential may happen. And there will probably be at least some modest improvement in office occupancy, however, clearly not anywhere near pre-covid. The Hines project at 10th and Marquette sounds like it will happen. So maybe some hope down the road...

[StandishGuy]

Don't worry! Mayor Jacob Frey is pulling together a task force of downtown leaders to figure out a strategy for retail revitalization... in December 2022. IMO the Macy's closure in 2017 may have been the time to pursue this...

[Didier]

I know some people don’t like Jacob Frey, but come on!

[alexschief]

I'm certainly skeptical that a task force of the same people who have been in positions of influence all along will bring the kind of fresh thinking that downtown needs, but...

Next week, Frey is scheduled to announce details about a "vibrant downtown storefront work group" of business and city leaders to address challenges.

The large department store model is a dying retail configuration, he said. He would like to see smaller, possibly locally owned retailers on Nicollet Mall. He also is interested to see retailers focused on experiences and is open to more service-oriented businesses such as dog day cares.

... the mayor does, at minimum, seem to have the right underlying idea here.

[VacantLuxuries]

Even the mayor's most ardent critics will agree that he's got the right connections with downtown power brokers to hopefully get results.

And they've got motivation to give him a win, as now that all meaningful power in Minneapolis is consolidated in Frey, they'll certainly want to avoid 2025 going in a more progressive direction.