Vikings Stadium Miscellaneous Discussion

[MNdible]

I've been wondering about that change to the 7th Street ramp -- has anybody seen this officially proposed anywhere? It feels (gradewise) that it could be achieved without too much gymnastics.

[woofner]

Yes it is in the Access Minneapolis plan and I think the MnDot Downtown Mpls Freeway Study.

[twincitizen]

1. I wonder what happens to the current 5th St exit then. If not for Cedar-Riverside Station being right there, it could be a local street to access downtown (and the stadium) from Riverside Plaza (connect to 15th Av S). At the very least it could be retained as a bike/ped connection. I mean, you wouldn't have to tear it down, right? To avoid Metrodome Station crowds, folks could walk over to Cedar-Riverside Station. (ok not really, I'm just trying to stay on topic)

2. If anything needs to renamed, it's that little stub called Washington Avenue that runs between the "real" Washington Ave and 19th Ave S (between Holiday Inn & Republic). There is absolutely no reason to call that thing Washington too...it's just confusing when giving directions.

[MSPtoMKE]

1. I wonder what happens to the current 5th St exit then. If not for Cedar-Riverside Station being right there, it could be a local street to access downtown (and the stadium) from Riverside Plaza (connect to 15th Av S). At the very least it could be retained as a bike/ped connection. I mean, you wouldn't have to tear it down, right? To avoid Metrodome Station crowds, folks could walk over to Cedar-Riverside Station. (ok not really, I'm just trying to stay on topic)

I would argue in favor of turning it into a local street connecting to 15th Ave., even though the angle is a little tight near Cedar-Riverside Station. There is already the Hiawatha Trail just north of the 5th St. Ramp, so I don't think another pedestrian/bike only crossing is really needed, although it should accommodate both.

2. If anything needs to renamed, it's that little stub called Washington Avenue that runs between the "real" Washington Ave and 19th Ave S (between Holiday Inn & Republic). There is absolutely no reason to call that thing Washington too...it's just confusing when giving directions.

It may be confusing, but that stub is the original Washington Ave. I view the 3rd/4th/Washington Ave trench as being the pretender in this case, it isn't "really" Washington Ave. The original alignment of the Washington Ave. Bridge was not angled as the current bridge is, it went directly between 7 Corners and Washington Ave on the East Bank. It is kind of vague where the CR-122 trench changes from being called Washington Ave. into 3rd and 4th St.

On your map, you say you aren't sure if the new northbound I-35W entrance will fly over or under the other ramps. It is going to simply be a double left turn lane from the Washington Ave. trench (4th St.?) that crosses at-grade westbound Washington Ave. (3rd St.?)

[MNdible]

Yes it is in the Access Minneapolis plan and I think the MnDot Downtown Mpls Freeway Study.

So, I guess that raises the question: do we think that this ramp is going to magically get funded in the next five years?

It would be interesting to know how people are currently navigating this area, since 5th Street has been effectively closed since LRT was begotten over 10 years ago.

[woofner]

1. I wonder what happens to the current 5th St exit then.

Also proposed to be a local street connection to Cedar Riverside in the Access Minneapolis plan. I think this is less likely than the 94 exit to 7th St.

f anything needs to renamed, it's that little stub called Washington Avenue that runs between the "real" Washington Ave and 19th Ave S (between Holiday Inn & Republic).

I propose Stub St. Or else Sue Jeffers Place. Although this is the wrong bank I guess.

So, I guess that raises the question: do we think that this ramp is going to magically get funded in the next five years?

I'd say no, but it has two things going for it - its age and the traffic volume on 35W. I think MnDot is going to make a big push for redoing the downtown freeway ring soon, for which the study was an obvious precursor. Soon of course is relative, although there are one or two politically powerful reasons to replace stuff around here. Speaking of the bridge collapse, you might want to check the list of bridges for which the Legislature allocated bonds for replacement by 2018. I know some other contemporaneous, nearby freeway infrastructure elements are on it, maybe this one is too.

[twincitizen]

It may be confusing, but that stub is the original Washington Ave. I view the 3rd/4th/Washington Ave trench as being the pretender in this case, it isn't "really" Washington Ave. The original alignment of the Washington Ave. Bridge was not angled as the current bridge is, it went directly between 7 Corners and Washington Ave on the East Bank. It is kind of vague where the CR-122 trench changes from being called Washington Ave. into 3rd and 4th St.

On your map, you say you aren't sure if the new northbound I-35W entrance will fly over or under the other ramps. It is going to simply be a double left turn lane from the Washington Ave. trench (4th St.?) that crosses at-grade westbound Washington Ave. (3rd St.?)

Who cares if it was the original Washington Avenue? We probably aren't ever going back to that alignment, so the stub should be renamed. I don't think we should have intentionally confusing street names for nostalgia's sake. I agree with you about the vagueness of when it switches from 3rd/4th to Washington SE though.

Where exactly are those turn lanes going? It seems difficult, if not unlikely, without changing the existing flyovers in the area. In this image, that's 35W on the left, flyover exit to 3rd in middle and exit to Washington on right. Presumably the new entrance would have to be routed through this area.

[MNdible]

Here's the Hennepin County website with information on exactly how this thing works.

It appears that, with the help of some retaining walls, the new lanes will split right between the two flyover ramps at grade.

[Rich]

More news, this time regarding soccer. The Vikings are ensuring that the stadium will accommodate professional/international soccer. And once the stadium development process advances a bit, they promise to explore investment in an MLS team. They've indicated this in the past, but it's nice to hear 'em reiterate it.

The MLS could bring around 400,000 folks downtown over the course of about 20 matches from March to October.

http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2012/10/0 ... er-bagley/

[mplsjaromir]

More news, this time regarding soccer. The Vikings are ensuring that the stadium will accommodate professional/international soccer. And once the stadium development process advances a bit, they promise to explore investment in an MLS team. They've indicated this in the past, but it's nice to hear 'em reiterate it.

The MLS could bring around 400,000 folks downtown over the course of about 20 matches from March to October.

http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2012/10/0 ... er-bagley/

Bad idea; this city is already over capacity when it comes to sports.

http://wagesofwins.com/2011/10/31/could ... good-home/

[Nathan]

More news, this time regarding soccer. The Vikings are ensuring that the stadium will accommodate professional/international soccer. And once the stadium development process advances a bit, they promise to explore investment in an MLS team. They've indicated this in the past, but it's nice to hear 'em reiterate it.

The MLS could bring around 400,000 folks downtown over the course of about 20 matches from March to October.

http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2012/10/0 ... er-bagley/

Bad idea; this city is already over capacity when it comes to sports.

http://wagesofwins.com/2011/10/31/could ... good-home/

Disagree I think in 10 years of so, when this could happen, soccer will have a huge surge in popularity. I have many friends who love it, and there is a huge push for the US to start having more pro-soccer. It's ever growing.

[Jfuss]

http://msfa.com/detail.cfm/page/msfaSit ... _KKPHQUES/

The public can now submit comments and questions about the stadium design to the MSFA. Check out the above link.

[Rich]

Thanks Jfuss! At some point I'm sure I'll have the urge to submit a comment.

Regarding the MLS, I think it could fly here. The Minnesota Kicks drew 24,000 folks a match over the course of 6 seasons back in the 70s, when there were a million fewer people living in the metro than there are now. And from a development standpoint, is there ever a downside to providing another reason for tens of thousands of consumers to bring their money downtown?

[Didier]

MLS plays a summer schedule, generally one game per week, so over-saturated might be a bit of a stretch.

Personally, in 10 years I think we'd be better off with an MLS team than an NBA team. MLS is a progressive, growing league that caters to young, urban fans. The NBA is a league where rich people pay high ticket prices to sit comfortably in an arena while a sporting event happens.

[Jfuss]

I thought I would share this interior shot from the HKS design proposal. I really like the creativity HKS has shown so far in their renderings.

[PhilmerPhil]

I think soccer would be successful in a city like Minneapolis. I'm not a sports enthusiast, but is it just me or does soccer seem like the kind of sport that would attract more of the ride my bike to the microbrewery in the city crowd?

[MumfordMoses]

More news, this time regarding soccer. The Vikings are ensuring that the stadium will accommodate professional/international soccer. And once the stadium development process advances a bit, they promise to explore investment in an MLS team. They've indicated this in the past, but it's nice to hear 'em reiterate it.

The MLS could bring around 400,000 folks downtown over the course of about 20 matches from March to October.

http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2012/10/0 ... er-bagley/

Bad idea; this city is already over capacity when it comes to sports.

http://wagesofwins.com/2011/10/31/could ... good-home/

God! I about lost my late dinner when this report indicated Riverside-Ontario-San Bernadino could support all, or nearly all professional franchises. Something is not right here, the Inland Empire is a mess, everyone in SoCal knows this profound reality.

The biggest problem I foresee with an MLS team in this forthcoming stadium - no natural grass. Seattle draws the biggest crowds in MLS, amazing support, look it up. But the huge complaint by the league, players and fans = the artificial turf. It would be really expensive to have a natural grass field. Something to think about.

Btw, MLS does not mean huge crowds as one may think - they usually target about 20 thousand a game as most, if not all the new soccer only stadiums are at this target capcacity. The NFL style stadiums, which have decreased, minus Seattle, shut off much of the upper decks - D.C., New England. But I think even parts of Century Field remain closed off, they just keep expanding the capacity here due to the Sounders' popularity.

This is my favorite MLS stadium:

http://www.houstondynamo.com/stadium

Finally, MLS is here to stay. It has quietly grown. We'd be a fine city for a franchise. Bring back the Kicks.

[mplsjaromir]

MLS plays a summer schedule, generally one game per week, so over-saturated might be a bit of a stretch.

Personally, in 10 years I think we'd be better off with an MLS team than an NBA team. MLS is a progressive, growing league that caters to young, urban fans. The NBA is a league where rich people pay high ticket prices to sit comfortably in an arena while a sporting event happens.

There is not a more urbane league than the NBA. How is it not progressive? The NBA is immensely more popular than the MLS. Just look to see how much the television contract of the NBA is worth compared to the MLS.

I was in Seattle and milling around Century Link Field before the Sounders game, there was a huge mass of people. The atmosphere was really good! But I can almost guarantee you that if faced with a decision between the Sonics or the Sounders, Seattle would choose the Sonics 99 out of 100. Portland would choose the Trailblazers over the Timbers 99 out of 100.

Soccer has been on the cusp of being a big time sport in America for 40 years now. Soccer has it fans, it does have a niche future. Over expansion has hurt the NHL, I'm sure it could hurt the MLS.

[nasa35]

MLS plays a summer schedule, generally one game per week, so over-saturated might be a bit of a stretch.

Personally, in 10 years I think we'd be better off with an MLS team than an NBA team. MLS is a progressive, growing league that caters to young, urban fans. The NBA is a league where rich people pay high ticket prices to sit comfortably in an arena while a sporting event happens.

There is not a more urbane league than the NBA. How is it not progressive? The NBA is immensely more popular than the MLS. Just look to see how much the television contract of the NBA is worth compared to the MLS.

I was in Seattle and milling around Century Link Field before the Sounders game, there was a huge mass of people. The atmosphere was really good! But I can almost guarantee you that if faced with a decision between the Sonics or the Sounders, Seattle would choose the Sonics 99 out of 100. Portland would choose the Trailblazers over the Timbers 99 out of 100.

Soccer has been on the cusp of being a big time sport in America for 40 years now. Soccer has it fans, it does have a niche future. Over expansion has hurt the NHL, I'm sure it could hurt the MLS.

completely agree.

Personally I think we have plenty of soccer options in this state...MORE than enough.

[Tyler]

I was in Seattle and milling around Century Link Field before the Sounders game, there was a huge mass of people. The atmosphere was really good! But I can almost guarantee you that if faced with a decision between the Sonics or the Sounders, Seattle would choose the Sonics 99 out of 100.

Not that this debate is relevant here but you're wrong about this, IMO. Seattle never was a great NBA town at all. I guess you could say they were for a few years in the 90's but any city would be with that team. The sounders draw better than the Sonics ever did and have way more "buzz" and fan interest than the Sonics did. I'm sure there is a large group that feels the way you say but not anywhere close to 99 out of 100. More like 50 out of 100.

I'd also agree with what was said above. The MLS fan is a different demographic. I mean look at Nasa's response. For that reason I don't think the "market saturation" debate is terribly relevant.